Kerry Wood, host 0:10

This is the Pursuit Holiness Podcast, the official podcast of the North Carolina Conference of the Global Methodist Church. We are engaging in scriptural holiness, applying it to everyday life so that we can have the new life in Jesus springing forth so richly and powerfully within us that all we are and all that we do accurately reflect the true character of God. Thanks for being with us today. This is an official podcast for the North Carolina Conference. And we hope that uh as you find it, that you will enjoy this time that we are together. My my very first guest is a great person to be introduced for our first podcast, and that is Bishop Jeff Greenway. And uh, I'm privileged to have known Bishop Greenway for probably 20 years, but the rest of you, you're just now getting a chance to uh probably get to know him. So we welcome Bishop Greenway, and so glad that you could take the time to join us today.

SPEAKER_00 1:22

Well, thanks, Carrie. Hey, you can just call me Jeff. I'll make that really clear Daniel Conference, too. I don't need I I want to be called what Jesus is gonna call me. I don't think Jesus cares about my title. There you go.

Kerry Wood, host 1:33

So so you're not gonna be uh Pope Benedict Leo the 27th or anything crazy like that.

SPEAKER_00 1:38

No, not at all. Not at all.

Kerry Wood, host 1:40

All right, fantastic. Well, we're so glad to have you with us. And if you would take just a moment to describe a little bit about what has been your faith journey, what are the highlights of God's movement in your life?

SPEAKER_00 1:51

Yeah, well, thanks. I'm I'm the oldest son of Harold and Betty Joe Greenway. My dad was a United Methodist pastor. He's been with the Lord for 15 years now. And my mom is now 88, and she's still the godliest woman I know. Wow. I I don't remember a time in my life where Jesus wasn't a part of the conversation. I don't remember a time not praying. I don't remember a time with him not being a guest at every meal, a part of every decision being made. My mom would tell you that she knew I was gonna be a pastor when I was two years old. Uh, I I think it's a little thin, but she says that I went into the living room one day and it was uh in the parsonage, and I looked up at one of Solomon's head of Christ, you know, the blonde-haired, blue-eyed Jesus. And my mom said, Do you know who that is? And she says that I said, Yes, that's Jesus, and I'm gonna serve him. Wow. Well, I it took me a while to get there. Uh, but the next significant moment in my life was uh three days before my 13th birthday. I uh was in junior high school. I got off the bus one spring afternoon uh and um and was met at the bus stop by my next youngest, or my sister and my next youngest brother, and they were hysterical. Uh they said, come home, there's blood and glass everywhere. And we ran down the street to our house, and I noticed that the front window of the house was broken out. Oh wow. And uh on the stoop outside the door uh was blood or blood and shards of glass everywhere. I later learned that my uh my, let's see, I'd have been almost 13, my four to five-year-old brother uh had been out in that first warm day of spring, you know, playing all day. My mom had him wrapped up like the bib the tire guy, but he came inside to get a drink of water because he was hot. And uh my mom gave him a drink of water and he turned in and he said, she said, Are you having a good time, Brian? And he said, Oh yeah, mommy, I'm having a great time. And he turned to run out the the front hallway like he had dozens of times before. And my mom yelled to say, Stop running. And uh he tripped over the throw rug and flew headfirst through the window. Oh my and uh and cut his uh right wrist to the bone and cut off of the right side of his neck. And my mom looked outside and she saw my baby brother with blood spurting out of his neck with every beat of his heart. As an evidence of the prevenient grace of God, uh my mom had seen an accident like this once before. She uh had been a nursing student at Madison College in in Virginia before she transferred to where she met my dad. And one night she was working in an ER and she saw this accident come in, and she instinctively knew what to do. She ran out the front door. Uh, she gathered my brother up in her lap. She pinched off the vein in his neck, she clasped his hand and started screaming for help. Wow. But uh everything else was left there, you know, the glass, the blood. And uh and it for the first time in my life, uh, life and death wasn't something that happened to other people. It could be something that happened to my family. And uh, and I was left as I'm I remember sweeping the the glass up off the porch and washing the blood off into the yard, uh thinking, wondering if if my brother was gonna live, and I was thinking about life and death and heaven and hell. Well, my dad was a pastor at the church in that little town, and uh they they were having a what was called a week care mission. This is something they did in the 70s, where a bunch of pastors would come and spend a week in the community, and they would go to visit every house in the community, invite them to services in the evenings. And uh, because I was the preacher's kid, there's no other place to go. My mom and dad were at the hospital, and so we were at the we were at the service, and the preacher's name was Jack Creeks. I I can't remember much of what he said that evening because of what was going on in my own heart, but I do remember when he gave the invitation, he said, uh, if you'll accept Jesus as your savior, the blood of Jesus will save you from sin and death. And and I wild horses could not have kept me away from coming to the altar that night. And uh, and that's when I accepted Jesus for myself. To that point, I'd been living on the coattails of my parents' faith and some of my grandparents' faith, but at that point it was mine. And we happened to be serving a church, it was a great time to be there. So for the next two years, I was deeply discipled by people who'd been converted through the Jesus movement. Uh, there were a lot of people in my life that helped to shape and mold me. And then when I was 15 years old, we moved to Erie, uh, where my dad was serving it, would serve a church there through my college years. And in Erie, um, you know, we we came from a really vibrant church with great youth programming. We came to a church that their idea of youth ministry was uh in the early 70s, a lot of the stuff coming out of the denominational publishing house related to situational ethics. You know, like there are five people in a lifeboat, there's enough food for three people, describing who they are, who gets to stay and who gets kicked out. It was awful, just awful. And I can remember going to my dad and saying, I'm not going to that. I don't want to go to that. And uh thankfully, there was an adult Bible study Sunday school class that did verse-by-verse Bible study. And I went to the leader of that class and asked him if I could sit in his Bible study. His name was Ken Vollmer, and he allowed me to do that. And that's what gave me the deep love for Bible study. And actually, the first time I ever taught the Bible was on a Sunday in that class with those folks who nurtured me to that point when I was 18 years old. Uh I went off to college, and while I was away at college, a position opened up on my dad's staff. And uh, unbeknownst to my dad, they contacted me to see if I'd like to have that. So I'm still in college, but I would come home on the weekends and on the breaks to work as the director of Christian education and youth on that staff. And we grew a youth ministry and you know, we did a lot of great things while I was there. But um, I was really struggling with a call to ministry. I and and honestly, Carrie, the struggle was uh, you know, my dad and mom didn't make a lot of money. You know, I thought everybody ate hamburger helper when I was a kid, and I thought every mother's favorite piece of chicken was the back. And I later learned that it was just because we just didn't have a lot. And so my idea was that to take care of my mom and dad, I was gonna go to college and I was gonna study business, and I was gonna make a killing in the stock market, and I was gonna buy four houses in four different parts of the country so that my parents could live in one in different seasons of the year, and I could not be there when they were there. You know, I wanted to take care of them, didn't want to live with them. So, but I'm in the middle of my my sophomore year of college at West Virginia, Wesleyan, and and God just won't let me go. He will not let me go. And finally, I remember calling my dad, who never pressured me to follow in his footsteps. He he would just say, Jeff, if if God wants you to be a pastor, you'll be a pastor. And uh, but don't be a pastor because I am. And uh and so I when I finally said, You know, I believe I'm called to ministry, he said, What took you so long? I was so irritated. You know, and then then I got to the staff parish relations committee and nobody was surprised, you know. I thought this was this big revelation, and they were like, Oh yeah, we knew this was gonna happen. And uh, and so I was affirmed for ministry and uh graduated from transferred to Mount Union College because I had begun to date my wife, and uh, and it was four hours closer than Wesleyan was. So I uh I graduated from Mount Union, and the day after I graduated, we moved to Kentucky and started seminary. But uh I would just tell you that that the discipleship that I received from the time I was born until I was about 20 years old has left its thumbprints all over me. Now, the thing that I didn't understand, even though I was a Methodist, I didn't understand Wesleyan theology at all. And I and I can remember uh sitting in class at Asbury my fresh my first semester and hearing about John Wesley and about Francis Asbury and Thomas Cook and and learning about justification and sanctification and holiness. And it was like it would like it, like took all of the seeds that had been planted when I was a kid and supercharged that to transform my life. Um probably the most significant thing that happened to me when I was at Asbury is I had my own personal experience of assurance, my own heartwarming experience that I know that Jesus is mine and I'm his.

Kerry Wood, host 10:58

Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 10:59

I've never once doubted anything about my faith since that moment. I mean, I'm not perfect, but I've never doubted the grace of God operative in my life since that moment. Uh but that's the that's the probably longer than your listeners want to hear. But I was raised in the church, raised in a Christian home, but it wasn't until I was at Asbury that the fullness of our tradition reached me and became big and changed me. And and in fact, my mom would tell you, my dad would have told you that I taught them because my dad hadn't been trained in a Methodist school. And honestly, even if he had been, he wouldn't have learned about that because we kind of gutted the essence of what it meant to be a Methodist. And when we followed Boston personalism and and Protestant liberalism, we kind of removed the heart out of our movement. And in essence, we're trying to re-ignite the movement with the heart again. Right. Right. So yeah.

Kerry Wood, host 12:04

Anyway. Well, that that's great. I appreciate you sharing that so much. And and there are a couple of points that my my own personal story resonates with yours. I I too grew up in a um very strong Christian household, and I do not remember a time when I didn't have some kind of an understanding of Jesus. Um, obviously, as a three and four-year-old, it's very different for me now as a 57-year-old, 58-year-old moments to remind me. Um, but yes, I I remember preaching to my toys when I was four years old, and then ran away from that sense of being called into ministry until my mid-30s. And, you know, God used the proverbial two by four to knock me across the head and said, This is not the life that I had planned for you. And everything changed for me as a result of that. And I resonate with your sense of you know what Wesleyanism teaches us about the Christian faith and how holiness is so much more than just a pie in the sky kind of thing, but there's some real power to that. And the scriptures are quite clear that this is what we as followers of Jesus are called to do, to become so much like him, so filled with his love that we are sanctified from the inside out. So thank you so much for sharing all that with us. Welcome. So, were you expecting your life to go the way that it did? So much so that in 2024, you are preparing to go to Costa Rica. Your name is on a ballot as a potential initial bishop of the Global Methodist Church, the the first ones to be elected since we officially formed our denomination. Unfortunately, we had some some wonderful leadership already in place uh with the the two bishops that were already among us, but we needed more. That was very clear. And so part of the the task that was set for those uh convening conference delegates was to elect a bishop. So, what were you thinking and feeling as you were considered for election? And what was your initial response when you were elected?

SPEAKER_00 14:14

Well, that's a those are great questions. Um, you know, one of the one of the one of the things I think we need to learn in our new our new movement is to to not look at as if it if someone is running for the episcopacy, but whether they've been nominated and will be elected to the episcopacy. We're we really tried leading into Costa Rica, you know, the nine of us that were originally initially nominated. We met together for a couple, three months before we ever went to Costa Rica. We were a covenant group together, we prayed together, we made commitments of things we would and would not do. We refused to campaign or send out emails soliciting support. Um, I honestly didn't know what to expect when we got to Costa Rica. Um I will tell you that there was a little bit of uh there's a little bit of angst on the part of some people that uh that some of us who were nominated were in the legislative committee that was talking about the episcopacy. And so I I made a commitment when I got there that I would not um I would not enter the debate, but I would respond to questions because I had chaired the task force developing the model that we ended up adopting for this season of the church. So I it was the most silent I've ever been at a general conference. And uh and I uh it was a good discipline for me, you know, to be still and just watch the body work. Um, I really didn't know what to expect. Um and uh and and actually when the voting began, I I just uh I had this overwhelming sense of peace. Um that that whatever happened, it was good. And uh and I that had actually happened earlier in the week. There are just so many things that happened, movements of the spirit during the first convening conference that kind of just kind of leveled the field on a whole lot of things internally and externally for all of us. So um, yeah, I did not know what to expect. Um, I was willing to serve. I was very clear that I would only do this for two years, and I'm still very clear that I'm only gonna do this for two years. I um Carrie, you know this because we served together in West Ohio, but I've been a part of building the denomination since the very first day. Right. It's August, August 1st of 2016, when uh we formed the WCA, and then in October I was elected as the WCA chair for the first four years. There's not been a week that I've not been working two jobs. You know, I was serving the church I was serving and then uh and being on the the WCA and then the TLC, and then there was a while I was both serving the church and the WCA and the President Pro Tem of Allegheny West. And so I have given a lot, a lot to the movement. Um, and in some cases I would be seen as a founder. Um, and I just think it's really important that founders at the appropriate time step to the side. Uh, that's why Keith Boyette stepped out as soon as general conference was over. Um, my commitment is that I will serve for the two years as a part-time episcopal leader to get us from where we were to where we need to be, and then I'll be a bishop emeritus and not have all those responsibilities. Um, I'll probably remain as a conference superintendent for a little while longer. The other piece for me that I I was very clear I would not stand for more than two years was I I would be six, I'll be 66 in 2026, and then the next general conference will be in six years after that. So I'd be I'd be 72 years old. My dad died when he was 75. And I've there's nothing eminent with me, but Beth has sacrificed a lot, especially these last 10 years, and has moved all over the place with me. And there's just this season that I want to, I'll never give up kingdom work. I would want to I want to do the things that I feel called to do, and not all necessarily things I have to do. And um, so that said, I was at peace if it happened, I was at peace if it didn't. When it did happen, um, you know, I everything kind of slowed down. Um there was a uh uh there was a uh a Kenyan uh Swahili interpreter that sat next to me most of the week and he was the first one to grab my neck. And then there were just people from all over the place uh celebrating that. Um my uh the staff that I was a part of at Reynoldsburg was watching it back home. I began to get text messages from people. Um but uh probably the greatest part was that Beth was able to be there to share that. And uh there were um I have some lifelong friends that we were in seminary together, and none of us ever thought we'd be a part of something like this. And to be able to share that experience with them, you know, was great. Uh I also had this feeling of uh incredible responsibility that has not dissipated. I I I wrote about this not too long ago. I was uh I was working on my uh the ordin ordination sermon that I'm preaching at the conferences where I'm ordaining people. And uh all of a sudden it just hit me. I never thought in my life I'd be laying hands on people to ordain them as ministers in Christ Church. Right. Uh and that was overwhelming to me. Um there are uh the day after I was consecrated or elected and consecrated, we're we were walking through the lobby of the hotel, and everybody's saying, Good morning, bishop. How are you, Bishop? Have a good day, Bishop. I to that point, Carrie, I could walk through a hotel and nobody'd say anything, right? And and and Beth was walking next to me and she said, You know, they're talking to you. And I didn't, and I hope I never do, you know. I just I'm just Jeff. Yeah, and um so I I feel called to this season. I feel called to to serve the church in this way. I'm honored to do it. Um, I have an understanding of what we intended the episcopacy to be, and I think it's important that I'm in the room with the Assembly of Bishops as we're embedding DNA in our movement right now, and we're being very intentional about that. Very intentional. But uh, I I don't know that surprised isn't the word, just humbled, a little bit overwhelmed, um, and honored. Dishonored. I get to serve with great people. Great, great people.

Kerry Wood, host 20:57

Absolutely. Uh for for me, one of the the highlights um from the time of when when we elected um the six new bishops, and uh you were all standing up on the uh the stage to uh to do a quick introduction. And you said something along the lines of you have uh 14 grandkids, and the look on Beth's face was like, huh? And then you realize what you had done, and you and you quickly switched over and I thought, you know, what a beautiful moment of recognizing that, yes, we have elected people and we said we want you to be leaders over us, but you're still human beings, you are still experiencing all of the emotions as a human being. And I just felt the the power of God descending upon us as we made those introductions, and you were just Jeff. You weren't putting on errors or anything. I just thought that was a wonderful special moment.

SPEAKER_00 21:54

Let me tell you something about that. We got off stage and Beth said, What were you thinking? I said, I wasn't. I was just I'm Overwhelmed. And then my kids started texting me. So my message back to them was uh either I was wrong or I'm prophetic, and you better get busy. So has there been any progress in adding to that number? All of them wrote back and said, not happening. So eight is enough. Eight is enough. So yeah, they're great.

Kerry Wood, host 22:21

Very good. Very good. So now that you have uh had uh some time under your belt as a bishop, as you have worked with your colleagues in the assembly of bishops, and as you've begun to um navigate all of the different um annual conferences that um you are overseeing as our bishop, including obviously North Carolina, what are the most exciting opportunities God is providing for us as an emerging movement for the Global Methodist Church as a whole? And then maybe a little bit about what you're seeing about North Carolina in particular.

SPEAKER_00 22:57

That's great. First of all, I'm really honored to be assigned in North Carolina. I've known David and Carrie for a couple of years before I was assigned. Uh, we all kind of did a happy dance when that happened. It's the same with my assignment to Heartland, and uh, and I'm getting to know the people in Thailand and Rwanda as emerging areas. Um I think that uh part of part of what I think has hit me is that we have uh we have arrived at the future, but we're not there yet. There's a lot of DNA, there's inherent DNA that we kind of bring with us. Um I just wrote a piece for Firebrand a couple weeks ago about escaping gravity. The the gravity of our former movement is pretty strong. And for us to become what I believe God is calling us to be, we really have to reclaim some things that have been lost. For example, when when we passed the uh the mission statement, which by the way, I had been working in our former denomination to get that mission statement passed since 1995. And my last act as a delegate to a general conference, the last thing I ever voted on was that mission statement. You know, 28 years or so, 28 years of life trying to get that thing passed. And um so grateful to be a part of that. And uh, but as soon as it was passed, the first question I was getting from people was, Well, what's what's script, what's scriptural holiness? Which is an indictment on the fact that we haven't taught our doctrine for a long time. Absolutely. Remember, I told you I was raised in a my dad was a very effective Methodist, United Methodist pastor, very effective. But that piece of our tradition was missing in any of his education. And I never heard it when I went to camp, I never heard it at any other place. So I I think that the exciting development is the opportunity to rediscover, reclaim, and reembed some really essential DNA into our movement. Uh I was just on a on a Zoom call this morning with uh Bishop Moore and Carolyn and John and Bishop Payne and I are working on a on our next teaching opportunity for the Assembly of Bishops. We we have already taped three different videos. Uh the last two are in the process of of of uh of production right now, but the next one we're gonna tape is when we meet together this fall, and it's on the beliefs, values, behaviors, and what it means to belong to the global Methodist Church. And one of the things we're wrestling with is what is the unique piece that we have to offer the the globe the Christian communion out there? And I think the unique piece that we have is an understanding of spirit-filled Methodism that isn't scriptural or holy, right? It's scriptural and holy. And it's a it's a I think it's an opportunity. You know, the Nazarenes have pieces of this, the Wesleyan's have pieces of this, pre-Methodists have pieces of this, but there seems to be a cohesive movement of the spirit right now, helping us to rediscover and understand some foundational doctrines, practices. And what I see happening, and Carrie, you were there, there were times at the general conference that the spirit just moved. Absolutely. And it wasn't contrived, it wasn't manufactured, and that's happening everywhere. I I was just talking, Carolyn Moore told me that last week at the Western States Annual Conference, a revival broke out during the finance report.

Kerry Wood, host 26:47

You will never say that about any kind of our former domination.

SPEAKER_00 26:50

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So so there's and it's the thing, it's it's uh there's a now I know some people are scared about this because they've been burned by charismatiacs and they become charisphobiacs. But there's a there's a sweetness and a gentility and a winsome humility in what I see happening across the church right now. It's not about ego, it's not about a particular expression of how the spirit moves, it's that the spirit moves. Um, so I you know, across the church, I see it's almost as if God is giving us the favor in these early days to pull back, to pull back the curtains that had been masking us from some things and allowing us to rediscover the genius of what the method made the Methodist movement great. Now, the thing, the hardest thing about that is the gravity of our past is pretty strong. And and and the uh you know the arrogance to think that we have arrived and we know everything, and the and and we have to be willing to lay down old wineskins so God can give us new ones and pour new wine into those. So that's uh I see that happening. I'm very excited about that. Uh, you know, part of our role is a teaching office, and I find myself doing a lot of preparation to teach on, you know, I I want to teach on this movement, but you know, we inherit things, right? So there's teaching that needs to be done. You know, so for example, I'm gonna be teaching some at the North Carolina conference on forgiveness and reconciliation. Great. Because, you know, you different pockets of the church had easier times to get out than others. And sometimes we learn some pretty bad habits that we kind of need to lay down so we can pick up something new. So I'm glad I'm glad to do that, but that's all from the perspective that there's more, that God has more for us than we've often settled for. Right. Now that's the theological piece, I think, is cool. I uh the other thing I I think is a great opportunity for us is to reclaim a DNA of of being a church planting multiplication movement. Um, Carrie, you and I come from the same part of the world, right?

Kerry Wood, host 29:10

Well, we we we we intersected for a while. I grew up in Texas as a Cowboys fan, you grew up in Pennsylvania as a Steelers fan, and somehow the grace of God allows us to love each other.

SPEAKER_00 29:20

If it wasn't for Jesus, that would be sick, right? Um, but but but our part of the world where we served in ministry for the last 20 years, starting churches was hardly ever happened. And, you know, in Allegheny West, where I'm the conference superintendent, we've we've started eight churches now, and we have about a dozen more that are in process about to be launched. You know, some people, there are other parts of the church that are starting 100 churches this year, you know, in Africa and some other places. But in a world where there weren't 20 churches started in the last 50 years, to be able to do that in a year and a half is amazing. Right. And and I I think that there's some movement that way other places, you know, around the around the world. Now, one of the things about North Carolina and and Allegheny West is that we're two of the largest conferences in the connection. And we can sometimes think, well, we've got enough to manage here. Well, yeah, there are un but there are unreached people groups all around us. Absolutely. And uh, you know, and if if North in North Carolina has some pockets where it's like a desert for the GMC, and if we if we plant something in the desert, it might just might grow. Right. So we'll see.

Kerry Wood, host 30:31

Yeah, even in my own district here, we we have uh a fairly large town that has no global Methodist presence in it. And so I and the rest of the pastors of my district, we are praying, God, show us the way that we can plant in Sanford, show us the way that we can plant in Moore County and Lee County, and you know, so so we are intentional about this in a way that I never had been in all of my previous years of of ministry experience. And I praise God for that.

SPEAKER_00 30:56

Well, and and then one of the things that I'm I'm asking people to do in Allegheny West is if we plant a uh a church in their circuit, you all have districts, we have circuits. If we plant a church in your circuit, every church in that circuit has to pray for that church every Sunday and worship. Every church in that circuit needs to figure out a way it's going to financially support that as a mission outreach in the next two years. And every church in that circuit that's close enough needs to be willing to release people to go help plant a church. And that is entirely different conversation than what we've had in the past. Right. Yeah.

Kerry Wood, host 31:35

There's no more ten million dollars to just parachute somebody in and say, go do it.

SPEAKER_00 31:39

No, in fact, what we learned, sadly, is that for every one church that did that, there were nine, there were nine to ten that did not. Yeah. And the what we're really doing is we're reclaiming the model of the 19 or the 1830s and 40s, where they were planting a church a day. And and that those were not churches like you serve in North Carolina or I served in Ohio. Those are those are class meetings. You know, the church I served in Ohio, and I served in Reynoldsburg, Ohio, was started 192 years ago as a class meeting in a blacksmith shop along the National Highway, Route 40, as it made its way west out of Pennsylvania. And uh, and the first minute, the the second thing they did was they formed a Sunday school and the blacksmith shop's house, the blacksmith's house, so that the kids could have a place to learn how to read. You know, and and 192 years, six buildings later, Reynoldsburg is what it is. But it was one preaching point out of 30 on the old Pickerington circuit. And today, 19 of those preaching points are still churches. There's something to be said about starting something small and growing it with the right DNA. Right. And I I I think that I think that we have on the theological side, we have the opportunity to reclaim and embed the right DNA. Now, I will tell you, there are people who are not gonna like this because they're afraid or they don't think they they think they've arrived. But uh but I where we're where people are open to this, especially like at the general conference. You saw this. You saw what happened. The spirit moved, unity reigned, and God was glorified. Uh but here's one of the one of the growing convictions that I have is that uh a lot of folks have been inoculated against uh spirit-filled Methodism. Now, what what do I mean by that? Well, Carrie, you're old enough you got a smallpox vaccine when you were a kid, didn't you?

Kerry Wood, host 33:47

I think so.

SPEAKER_00 33:48

Yeah, I got one. And you know, well, how does a vaccine work? Well, they give you a watered-down version of the disease so that your body can develop the antibody to fight it off, so that if the real thing is presented to you, you can kill it before it kills you. On a spiritual way, sometimes we've inoculated people against saving faith or sanctifying faith, so that when somebody says, No, there's more, the reaction is I have enough. Right. Good. You don't have anything to offer me. So it's going to take humility on our part to say, you know what, I thought so too, but I learned I was wrong. There's more. And uh call our people to something more.

Kerry Wood, host 34:30

So how does that look for a local church, for families and for individuals? What does moving into this form of Christian life, what what does that look like? Do you have any practical um examples or suggestions for us?

SPEAKER_00 34:49

Yeah, I do. You know, um you know, I served Reynoldsburg for 18 years before I left to be a conference superintendent. Um and one of the things we did was we we we basically killed the adult Sunday school. And we didn't do it overnight, but you know, classes run their course, and whenever we decided that we could never build enough Sunday school space for all the classes to meet, that we wanted to go to a small group-based, accountable discipleship model. We called them life groups. Lately, we called them Wesley groups, and uh and we we ended up basically when uh whenever a Sunday school class would run its course, we would not find a replacement. We would launch small groups. And uh and basically it's a reclamation. I think that the one of the most important things that we can do is reclaim accountable discipleship on a lay level. Uh band meetings, class meetings, accountable discipleship, where it's not just a talking head that's imparting their understanding of what the Bible says, but it's a group of people who learn how to explore the scriptures together and they watch over one another in love and they make covenant commitments to each other that they're going to ask about next week to see if they continue to grow in grace. And and I think, you know, where that is happening, where that is happening, the culture of churches is changing. And then when it comes to family, you know, reclaiming the family altar of the dinner table, you know, I I talk to my kids all the time, my adult children, about the fact that I I I pray for them as they raise kids today. Because there are so many, there are so many distractions. Absolutely. And and they and the the world around us tells us that we're a terrible parent if we don't sacrifice so our kid can play travel ball or a kid can be in the best orchestra or whatever, whatever it is. And I'm not opposed to any of that at all, except are they sacrificing just as much to make, you know, they're sacrificing to make sure that these games their kids aren't going to play after they're 25 are the central part of their lives when they're teenagers, or they're they're involved in stuff that's never they're never gonna do after they're out of high school. Are they willing to invest as much in the part of their child that will last forever? Right. And uh and and you you're a grandfather, you you watch how you know you watch how your kids parent kids, right? And and and and it's hard because there's so much pressure. But um, you know, part of the reason you disciple the adult is because the church is not the primary discipler of a child. The church provides support, the church provides some programmatic opportunities, but really my discipleship happened at our dinner table until I was at a certain age where I could be involved in other small groups, you know, but uh helping parents reclaim that. But you cannot lead kids to someone you do not know. And so helping the adults to understand that uh that that this is more the Christian faith is more than is more than about it's about more than the transformation of information. That uh the transformation occurs when when when there's application and accountability. So if there's a a Bible study that's talked about what are we gonna do? What's what do you hear the Spirit saying for you to do today based upon what we talked about? What are you willing to commit to to try for the next week? And then when you come back, we'll ask you how you did. And where that's happening, people are being changed. People are being changed. So I I think it's uh it's revamping our our discipleship systems to move from, you know, when we I said that the church I served started a Sunday school as a second ministry. But that was Sunday school was never intended to be the adult education system in the Methodist movement. Right. Yeah, it was a mission outreach to kid teach kids who could not read how to read. And basically we got distracted away from the heartwork of discipleship into the into filling people's heads with knowledge, and that hasn't changed anything.

Kerry Wood, host 39:20

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the the the importance of the relationship aspect of what we are supposed to be about has one of those things that I think that we have lost. That we are called to be in a relationship with God, and that relationship with God then moves into and changes the dynamics of the relationships we have with each other. And we live in a modern society that has more information that it knows what to do with, but at the same time, it doesn't know how to be in relationship anymore. It doesn't matter if you've got four million TikTok followers. How many of those people actually know who you are? And how do you know who they are? So, one of my favorite questions that that we use in in my discipleship band is where are the scriptures and the spirit speaking into your life? Right. That's such a powerful question because it it makes us pay attention throughout every moment to see is is this something where God's teaching me? Is this something where I'm engaging in a relationship dynamic that that the Holy Spirit is moving and doing something? Am I spending the time in the scriptures not just reading for extraction, but for immersion into that? And so I think that you know, as we are able to do more and more of that, that is going to fit in exactly with what you're describing that we need to be.

SPEAKER_00 40:43

Yeah. I I also think we we really on the on the preaching side, we really need to reclaim expository preaching, strong biblical preaching. There's a place for a topical sermon, there's a place for that kind of thing, but there's nothing healthier than uh than helping unpack a text from its context and apply it to today. Absolutely. Right. Um, and and and and here again, there are all kinds of styles of preaching, but my experience over the last almost 40 years is that expository preaching has helped take people further faster than topical preaching or uh or any other kind. You know, I it's just been very helpful because it teaches people how to use their Bibles. It teaches people, you know, it teaches people that and and and it and it puts God's truth in front all the time rather than our interpretation of God's truth.

Kerry Wood, host 41:45

Absolutely. I love it. So is there anything else that you would like to um communicate to North Carolina global Methodists in particular or to the church as a whole? This is your chance to whatever's on your heart.

SPEAKER_00 41:59

Well, uh, first of all, um when when our kids, when our kids were little, Carrie, uh there was a movie out starring Robin Williams called Hook. Remember the movie? I do remember that one. And uh, you know, he plays the adult pan, right? Peter Pan is now a middle-aged accountant, and he's kind of miserable in his life. He's so busy he doesn't remember what it's like to have fun. And the movie begins with his kids being kidnapped and taken to Neverland. And then Tinkerbell comes to take him back so he can rescue his kids. Great story. A lot of fun with the story. But one of the keys is he's forgotten how to be the pan. He's forgotten all the power that he has. And the Lost Boys in this one scene are trying to teach him how to fly. You know, and he's running and jumping off cliffs, and he's you know, he's running into trees. It's a miserable failure until one of them says, You need to remember your happy thought. And when he remembers his happy thought, which is his kids, he soars and he's transformed back to the pan. Here's what I want North Carolina to hear. We need to remain remember and reclaim our happy thought. We've been saved by grace through faith that God's given his spirit to live with inside of us inside of us, that the same spirit that raised Jesus from the dead lives inside of you and me. And he is changing us into his likeness every day. And he wants so much more for us than we can ask or imagine if we will just pay attention. Amen. So I want you to remember the hour you first believed. I want you to remember when everything was new and fresh, and you were open to anything, and I want you to be open to anything the Spirit has to offer you. Now, now, just a couple of other things. I'm honored to be your bishop, but I'll be a very different bishop than Bishop Jones was. So uh Scott and I are great friends, but uh I've already told David that. That he'll be chairing the sessions of annual conference. I'll be there to do the things that bishops are to do. I'll preside when we elect delegates. I will ordain. I'll preach and teach, but uh and I'll pray whenever I'm invited to. But my my job there is to is to help David and Carrie be as effective as they can possibly be. I work very closely with them and the other conference superintendents I work with. Um and I want you to know you don't have to be afraid to talk with me. I'm just a guy, you know, and uh and and I'd be glad to engage anybody in conversation. I'm not quite sure how the mules and everything work at the convention center, but uh I'm sure we'll have time in the margins to get acquainted. And uh the other piece is um just a word to the body. I I don't want you to skip out on the ordination service.

Kerry Wood, host 44:49

Absolutely.

SPEAKER_00 44:51

It's really important that the whole body of Christ be present when when new clergy are being ordained, and uh and uh what I have noticed across the church is that it seems like that's the night that everybody goes out to dinner someplace else because they don't think it applies to them. But uh I believe that God will call people to ministry in the ordination service. I believe that God will call people to faith in the ordination service. I believe that God will call people to sanctifying grace in the ordination service, and I want you there. I'd love for you to be there. So let's pack your house on Saturday. That'd be great. That'd be great. Listen, I'm gonna stay, so you might as well stay too.

Kerry Wood, host 45:38

So that's right. And uh it we shouldn't see this as a oh, it's an obligation. No, it's it is a definite uh blessing. I mean, we are we are able to enter into the the spirit of of thanksgiving. And you know, I'm reminded of what David said. I was so glad when they said to me, Let us go into the house of the Lord. Well, how much more powerful is being in the house of the Lord as the anointing is being done to new clergy, to have them become empowered by the Holy Spirit to take authority, to preach the word and to spread scriptural holiness across the globe. That is just an amazing thing. We need to see it, we need to embrace it, and then we need to go do it.

SPEAKER_00 46:22

Every time, every time I go to annual conference, uh, I uh it's a little emotional for me to think about this. But I always went to the ordination service because I needed to remember. I needed to remember what I said yes to. I needed to remember the covenants that I made. I needed to remember that I was a part of something that is bigger than me. Even in our past life, when things were going off the rail, it was a centering moment for me. Even more so now. You know, and here's the other other piece. Uh, last uh last Friday, I I went, I flew to Wichita uh because one of the pastors I was supposed to ordain at the end of May isn't gonna live that long. And so I flew in and drove two my two hours out in the middle of nowhere with the conference superintendent, the dean of the cabinet, and one other pastor, and this pastor was waiting for us with his family around him and a few other friends, and we ordained him. And uh and it reminded me uh of just what a sacred moment that is. And this guy had been a local pastor for a couple of decades in our former denomination and was always seen as second class. And we do not have second class clergy in the GMC. Right. If you're if you're called and gifted to serve our churches, we're gonna provide the way for you to be ordained. And uh, and it's just a I've been an advocate for local pastors to be ordained for a long time. I'm glad I'm finally in a movement that allows that to happen. Indeed. Absolutely.

Kerry Wood, host 48:08

Well, Bishop, I appreciate how much time you have uh given to us today and for the opportunity for our folks to maybe get a better sense of of where God has been impacting you so that you can be an effective leader to impact us. Um, I would really love it if you would uh pray a blessing for us as uh we prepare to end this inaugural podcast of the Pursue Holiness Podcast for North Carolina Global Methodists.

SPEAKER_00 48:34

Lord, I I thank you for the grace that you've given to us, a grace that uh convicts us and a grace that converts us, a grace that consecrates us and changes us. And Lord, uh, we confess to you that there have been times in our past when we've settled for something less than you offer to us. I just pray that you would give us the desire, the deep heart desire to pursue holiness of heart and life. Not a holier than thouness, but a holiness of heart and life that is so attractive and winsome that people want to know the reason for the hope that we have. I pray that you would stir within us a desire for Christian perfection, not perfectionism, but Christian perfection, that we could be perfect in love of God and other people. God, I pray, I pray that uh you would help this movement to not stall in the gates, but that you help us to run the race that you have set before us. I thank you for the good folks in North Carolina. I thank you for the North Carolina Annual Conferences for all of its pastors and all of its people, all of its congregations, and I pray your blessing upon them. I pray for the indwelling of your Holy Spirit to be manifest with us when we gather in Winston-Salem in a few weeks. We pray that uh that we would have that sense that we are about something that is so much bigger than we are, and that you would move, that you would surprise us with your grace, that you surprise us with the way you heal us and mend us and call us and equip us and empower us and send us. Lord, we pray that uh we would leave with holy hearts and holy hands and holy lives. We thank you, Lord. We praise you, we love you. Thank you for loving us in Jesus' name, amen.

Kerry Wood, host 50:22

Amen. Thank you so much, Bishop, and we will see you in June. Hey, Carrie, it's just Jeff. I'm sorry, Jeff. It's just Jeff, but it's not just Jeff, it is Jeff who is a beloved child of God. Thanks. God bless you, Carrie. Blessings to you, friend. Well, friend, if you have made it this far to uh today's podcast, I want to thank you so much for giving us your time and your attention. I just have one more favor to ask. Would you please rate this podcast? Give us five stars. Um, if you want to add additional information and feedback, please uh share that as well. Subscribe to receive future episodes. Our plan is to do this about once a month to begin with, to just try to get the ball rolling, and then we'll see what happens. And maybe it'll become a little bit more often if we have good news to share. And that is the last thing. Share. Share this podcast with your friends, send links to them so that they can hear this, recommend it, and let us know what we can do to make things better, to be able to think of future uh podcast story ideas. All of that is welcome. And if you want to find more information about the Global Methodist Church in North Carolina, you can go to ncglobalmethodist.org. Uh, go to pursueholiness.org for more information about this specific podcast. And the Global Methodist Church is at globalmethodist.org. And I hope that you will be here for our next episode. God bless you and take care.