Kerry Wood, host 0:10

This is the Pursue Holiness Podcast, an official podcast of the North Carolina Conference of the Global Methodist Church. We are engaged in scriptural holiness, applying it to everyday life so that we can have the new life in Jesus springing forth so richly and powerfully within us that all we are and all that we do accurately reflect the true character of God. Thanks for being with us today. I'm Carrie Wood, your host, and today you get to hear from the other side of the world. The conference superintendent and the general secretaries for the Uganda South Sudan Annual Conference of the Global Methodist Church are my guests today. And I feel like I need to give you a little bit of background information before we jump into the interview. First of all, the Uganda South Sudan Annual Conference is led by Bishop Beth Moore, but we here in North Carolina have joined into a strategic partnership between the North Carolina Global Methodist Church and the Ugandan South Sudan Global Methodist Church. Now, if you were like me, you probably don't know much about Uganda. So I did a little bit of research to kind of share with you some information to kind of give you a sense of what they are like over there and how they compare to us over here. Uganda is on the eastern portion of the African continent. It is a landlocked nation, which means that it has no access to oceans in any direction. On the north, it is bordered by South Sudan. On the east, it is bordered by Kenya. On the south, by Tanzania, and then on the southwest by Rwanda and the Due West from the Democratic Republic of Congo. Now it is relatively a small nation in relation to its neighboring nations. They are all much bigger geographically, and it is about two times the size of North Carolina, but it has five times the population of North Carolina. They have an estimated population of around 49 million people, and nearly half of them are under the age of 18. I think that is just an amazing demographic uh statistic that they have so many young people, and that means there is so much opportunity for being able to engage in the next generation in that nation. Now, according to statistics, 39% of the Ugandan population are Roman Catholic. 32% are members of the Angolan Church of Uganda, which is the Anglican Communion. And so between those two, you have over 70% of the population, but they are probably of nominal faith. So much like here in North Carolina, where we have a lot of people who will claim to be Christian, but they're not necessarily very active in growing in that faith. Uganda has the same kind of environment. 11% of them are evangelical Protestant, which includes the Global Methodist Church. And then there is approximately 14% who are Muslim. So Uganda is a nation that is mostly nominally Christian, but there is also a significant uh Muslim presence, and the evangelical Protestants, the Global Methodist Church, there's a lot of room for them to grow. Now, a little bit about the nation itself. Uganda is an area that has a incredibly deep and long history. The ancient kingdoms of Buganda and the Qatara Empire were in this region, and they've been influenced by Egypt, Ethiopia, India, and Arabia. Great Britain claimed it in the 1830s and they established the Protectorate of Uganda in 1894. Uganda achieved its independence from Britain in 1962, and they formed a Republican democracy, but this nation has never experienced a political, economic, or cultural stability. It is a nation that has continued to struggle to find itself in the post-colonial era. A gentleman by the name of Yumiri Musseini, if I'm pronouncing that correctly, has been the president since 2011. He is elected to five-year terms. So far, he's had three of them, and there are no term limits. And so basically, they are functioning as a dictatorship, but he has been elected into that position. And if you want to go learn more about the politics in Uganda, there are all kinds of websites that will help you to see that. All of this to say Uganda is a nation that deeply needs Jesus. Just like America deeply needs Jesus. And I am so grateful that we, as the North Carolina Global Methodist Church, have partnered with our brothers and sisters in Uganda to be the global Methodist Church. As part of this partnership between North Carolina and the Ugandan South Sudan Annual Conference, we have a team of North Carolina people already in country as I speak. Carrie Howard, the Associate Conference Superintendent, her husband J.F. Howard, Doug Miller, Mike Phillips, Greg Jenks, who is the director of our global partnerships, Brad Hopper, and Kim and David King are all part of a North Carolina conference delegation to engage with our brothers and sisters in Uganda to learn more about what they are doing, what they need from us, and what we need from them. That's the kind of partnership we are trying to create. It is a mutual engagement, not handouts, not just us giving to them, but the actual engagement back and forth the way God intends it to be. So without further ado, let's hear from Damalura and Wilberforce. Now, I will give you this. They sometimes are a little bit difficult for our American English hearers to understand their accents in speaking English to us, but just listen hard. I know you can be blessed. Well, friends, I'm Carrie Wood, host of the Pursue Holiness Podcast, and my special guests on this episode are friends from the other side of the world, almost literally halfway from North Carolina in Uganda. I have the Reverend Damalira Christopher and the Reverend Wilberforce Bewire. And Reverend Christopher, you are the conference superintendent for the Global Methodist Church in Uganda. Is that correct? Yes, that's great. And and Wilberforce, what is your role for the conference?

SPEAKER_02 7:42

I'm the Conference General Secretary.

Kerry Wood, host 7:45

The General Secretary. Well, wonderful. Welcome to the podcast. And uh I would like each of you to take a moment just to introduce yourself, tell us a little bit about your life and the calling that God has put on you, and anything about your family that you would uh be willing to share.

SPEAKER_01 8:04

Oh, thank you. Uh Ranke uh Kent. I'm Reman Namlia Christopher from Uganda. I am a theologian or I'm trained as a pastor and I've been in ministry for 21 years and serving with the government's church. I really want to thank God so much for this opportunity to be here on this platform. Uh during the time of some of my service, I have been a church pastor and also uh I've been the superintendent of Uganda or the superintendent of a district, the district of Lowell district in the United Methodist Church. I am married uh to one wife, and I have three children who are all boys. And now my last born is in Form 6, and the two are at the tertiary institutions. So I'm 56 years old now, and uh so I'm I'm old enough now. I've retired from the field of uh bringing human uh life to to into the world. Oh so I'm gonna be ministering now with the United Methodist uh the Grown Methodist Church having disaffected uh from Renate Methodist Church. The world district stands as maybe the only district in Uganda that disaffiliated as a district, and then the rest of the churches, like those from Busia, also followed uh disaffiliating from the Methodist Church. And uh after the disappearation of uh from the church, I was charged with the responsibility uh by the by the connection the uh leadership and national council by then to lead the team that was uh working on the registration of the Global Methodist Church in Uganda, a work which was done successfully uh when I was being assisted by Agnes Kadama, who is not now with us though after some issues. Uganda, you know, Uganda has been facing some uh problems with the Methodist Church for long, the issues of uh uh leadership and maybe uh uh power and uh also some bit of corruption and uh due to those issues, maybe we were not able to be with Agnes because she thought she leaded us the other way, and yet this time along we actually committed to serving God and bringing a change. We are delighted that we have been given uh Bishop Carolyn Moore as our bishop, and uh she is really a good mother to us. I'll call her mother because she's actually taking care of the Uganda Group Church uh very well. We are actually a church born in uh outside the wilderness, some others say in the bush, because the church was born almost with a uh nothing save the few leaders that uh we have today. And today we are delighted that through the trainings we are developing leaders. The majority of our churches that we have in Uganda today, in the Good Methodist Church, do not actually come from the Northern Methodist Church. We have just a few that are coming from the Methodist Church. And even those who are coming from the Methodist Church did not have actually a good training. But we are glad today that we are being blessed. And right now, as we are talking to you, we have a team from Francis and uh Asbury uh coming here in Uganda. Uh, it's already here with us in Uganda. We have finished day one of the training, and uh tomorrow we are going to do day uh two of day four. They're here for four days, and it's a very good training, very edifying, and really moved towards developing our Kragi team and also seeing that we can do good work in building the Global Methodist Church. I'm glad to say that actually uh all the members here are so delighted and very happy uh because today we are really seeing that we are actually building Methodism in Uganda. We are actually very appreciative for the funds that uh you uh friends of ours from North Carolina sent us to transport the pastors. It has made us able to have many pastors here for training, and so we're here now for training those pastors with Bishop Carolyn Mo and Reverend uh uh Joy Griffin, and also with the brother Farcadu Amanu. Uh he's also is from the United States of America, but he is a uh born of Africa, he's an Ethiopian, and uh we are very glad with actually what actually we are experiencing now.

Kerry Wood, host 13:47

Very good, wonderful. Uh Wilberforce, tell us a little bit about yourself, please.

SPEAKER_02 13:55

Thank you. Your friend Kerry, um, Reverend Wilberforce Wheeler from the east of Uganda, and uh I'm married to my wife Marcy, and God has given us two children, a daughter and uh a son of Victoria and Benjamin, and uh God has done us great. When I was growing up, I experienced a lot of heart in church. I saw a lot of things happen that I felt there was something to be done about all things. So I grew up, and perhaps God was speaking to my heart when I was still in high school, when I was observing a lot of things in the Methodist church, I was like, no, this wouldn't not be the best way. And uh I thank God that when I finished my high school, God called me to go to the seminary. And when uh when I was at the seminary, when I gave in my time to study, and then I was able to understand God's word, and then I said, Oh, I I have to go out in the world and then share this the word of God with people and then show love, and then uh God God was calling me to do leadership development, and then to see how to raise our leaders because of the crisis of leadership that we grew up with in the United Methodist setup. And uh I want to thank God that today we are here, we are developing others, we are helping one another to learn to study the word of God, and uh we are blessed to to partner with you in North Carolina ministry, and uh we are really blessed to have you and to be your friends and your partners in the gospel. Very so much so well. I I want I want to welcome you, I want to welcome whoever is in North Carolina who loves global Methodism, who has embraced this new movement, this event body movement, to come over to Uganda and see what God is doing down here. Thank you.

Kerry Wood, host 16:20

Yes, thank you. So you've already begun to describe some of the work that you are doing as the Global Methodist Church in Uganda. What would you describe as being uh your successes and your challenges that you are experiencing?

SPEAKER_01 16:39

Hey, one of the things that you should count as a success is the convening of our annual conference. Yeah, amidst all the challenges, really we were able to convene the annual conference without any strife because it has been a common practice in Africa that normally the Government Church has been attacked even elsewhere. So, and even here we also had those people who were really determined to bring us down, but successfully actually we convened the annual conference and it was done. We have also been able to do uh we have been able to do discipleship under your support. Uh we have been able to visit several uh congregations and do discipleship, and we have seen how it has been really fruitful. Uh, people have uh got to learn more about the Government Church, and also this has brought us more near these people to get to even know more about them. And uh, we also have been able to conduct uh uh district conferences that's coming on, bring the church down to the people so that they may really know more about the church and we feel part of it. And uh, this actually is a success to us because it has not been uh like that before. You know, the formation of the government's church comes to Uganda after we have been in an embargo for quite a long time where there was almost no ministry going on, and whatever was being well done was actually done by people who simply volunteer and really strive hard to see something done. But we are blessed that that has been able to be done, and we uh through that we have been able to also reach out and share because in each and every uh meeting for discipleship, we've been sharing about the common church and the doctrines, and also we've been we've done baptism, uh, we've done confirmation in those uh uh meetings, we've done holy communion, and actually now few people have begun feeling that really they belong to the body of Christ. That is very good, and uh, we count it a success at such a period because we count that we are now only six months old as a government church in Uganda.

Kerry Wood, host 19:21

So very young.

SPEAKER_01 19:23

Yeah, yeah.

Kerry Wood, host 19:24

So is Uganda mostly a Christian nation? Is there a lot of Muslim population? What are what is the religious makeup in Uganda?

SPEAKER_01 19:40

In Uganda, the majority of the people in Uganda are Christians. Approximately 70% of the people in Uganda are actually Christians.

Kerry Wood, host 19:52

And are they practicing Christians or are they Christian by tradition and history?

SPEAKER_01 19:58

And uh the majority uh we may refer to them as nominal Christians.

Kerry Wood, host 20:06

So much like America.

SPEAKER_01 20:10

We've got another challenge of uh again with those Christians that we have in Uganda that is uh I don't know how to term it in simple terms, but uh when we are looking at the study of say if you are looking at uh in in the theological term, we may refer to this as syncretism and the teaching of uh other gods along the uh along the true God or even worship of other spirits along the true God. So that is very common among us here our our Christian churches, and even actually the Christians themselves, it is much more practiced. So, as much as it sounds that there is a Christianity in Uganda, we have a challenge of having true Christianity, that is having people who really take Jesus Christ as their Lord. It was really difficult to have Jesus Christ as their Lord.

Kerry Wood, host 21:16

Anything you want to add, Global Force?

SPEAKER_02 21:19

I just want to add on some of the things that uh we have achieved is uh we have been able to institute a good leadership to lead the global Methodist Church in Uganda. Where we have the bishop, we have the coffee pretended, we have the cabinet, we have the connection council, we have working committees in churches, and then uh everyone is feeling called, everyone is practicing his or her priesthood, and uh people are organized and people are feeling the church of God upon their lives. And then uh the other thing. Is uh we have also struggled so hard to reconcile and build healthy relationships among people because we have come from a broken history, and one thing that we have really done is to pray for people, to interact and uh encourage them with scriptures and then preach forgiveness and love for bearing with each other and reconciliation and love, and then we are seeing people being revived, and people are coming back to see the value of God in their lives. Um, the other thing we have done is uh we are taking the global methods to the people, not like the people coming to us, we are going to them. Going to where people are. That is really good. And uh I want to say that yeah, if if if God provides and then we go that way, the global Methodist Church will look more stronger in a shorter time than the United Methodist Church that had existed for years because we are taking Jesus to the people. That's very good. The other challenge we face here is the challenge is Uganda has 56 local languages. Okay. That is you you have to be linguistic enough to be able to accommodate everybody in communication, right? So that's a that's a challenge we face here, and then uh people are traumatized because of the long years of war, especially in the northern Uganda and the central, where war existed for years, that people are just getting to normal life, people are just normalizing, and uh so those are some of the challenges we are facing, and then um the other challenge is there's still a leadership crisis since leaders were not developed by let me see the UMC. So, whilst for us who are here, we have to do a lot of work to see that we equip, we mentor, we nature leaders who take the gospel, even if we we we retire or we get tired or we go to do with the Lord. So those are some of the challenges we have. But slowly, day by day, we trust God we will be there. Indeed. Yes, God is always good.

Kerry Wood, host 24:50

So, with the the delegation of people coming from North Carolina to visit with you, what are your goals for them to experience? What do you want them to learn and bring back to the United States?

SPEAKER_02 25:07

Um one of the things we want the delegation to learn, uh we want them to learn, to experience the way we worship God, the passion that people in Uganda have for God, and then uh experience, you know, like if you are here, you are in the thing, you are able to experience the real life of the people. You see, you touch, you sense, and then you are able to understand the people and communities. So this is going to give them a good perspective of how to partner with us in a ministry. Very nice.

SPEAKER_01 25:57

Yeah, I also add on that uh actually we do expect that when our friends from North Carolina reach here, they will get to learn us to learn more about us. Quite often we've talked uh online, and once we were here with the Reverend Greg and were able to reach one of the far areas in the in the mountain, that is Mountain Aragon, and he was able to see some of the the labor that is being done by some of the people who are voluntarily and willingly coming up to plant churches. And uh, we hope that the team is going to learn more about our community and how we do work here, and also to actually really know the scope of the work before us and maybe also appreciate us more. You know, we have a problem that uh we have been with the or under an embargo for some time as a result of the leadership that we had here, and uh sometimes we happen to think that maybe somehow we are rejected because of uh what actually was in is in our nasty history of the Methodist Church here in Uganda, and but we just want to assure you that actually we have completely moved out of that. We're doing our best to see that everything is accounted for very well, and the work is done, and everything is truly invested in what it has to go to. And uh, when you come, maybe when they are here, they'll uh appreciate us and even find uh may help us to find solutions to some of the uh issues that may not be easy to account for. Things like uh transport here in Uganda, it may hardly account for transport because uh if you want a receipt, you can rarely find a receipt. You know, there's the mode of transport we use and the kind of training from our background doesn't own a receipts, and so people don't mind, and so we are trying to break out of that and try to do our best. Maybe when they come, they'll still appreciate us more and really know how we are labeling. Very good, and I do I also do expect that when we or the team interacts with the pastors, uh, we'll get to know the kind of pastors that we have and how needy as far as education is concerned, and also in other issues of healthy and uh also look at how some of our families are striving with the uh trying to support themselves, look at the kind of life some of our the widows that we have around are living, some of the life that even people who are not widows but is still unprivileged are living, and how they are doing their best to uh sustain themselves, and also learn again how they can or we can be helped, or we can help one another in having a self sustained and self-propagating church in Uganda.

Kerry Wood, host 29:31

Right, right. So, what word of encouragement would you have to Americans, North Carolina people who would want to be in partnership with you in Uganda?

SPEAKER_02 29:47

Yeah, the encouraging word I want to give to my friends in America is that uh Uganda is now fertile for the gospel. And uh I invited them to come and plant seeds of hope, seeds of revival. Um Uganda is a place where they can come and share their gifts, do ministry and uh create long-lasting health relationships. So time is now that uh they can come over if God has opportunity and then be able to do ministry in Uganda because the land is now fertile. Thank you for that.

SPEAKER_01 30:39

So maybe I want to also say that Uganda, the hearts are open and our hands are raised to receive and bless our friends from North Carolina.

Kerry Wood, host 30:54

And we want to learn from you that we we don't want this to be only American resources going to Uganda. We know there is Ugandan resources that can come to us that we can learn from you just as much as you can learn from us, and I think we are striving for that mutual support that is a very different way of doing ministry than what maybe the previous denomination was doing. Right, yeah. So, how may we pray for you and the Ugandan Global Methodist Church?

SPEAKER_01 31:33

You also pray for us that we finish uh very well our training, that people may God may grant us good health, that all people may finish uh the training without having problems without some even going back home or any anything happening around. Uh, Uganda currently we are having some issues of politics. There's campaigns going around, and uh times some times we may have violence here and there. So, yes, I want you to pray for us that we may have peace all through, both here and even at home.

Kerry Wood, host 32:12

We will do that. Well, let us let us say a prayer together. Almighty God, I thank you for the work that you are doing all around the world, but especially in Uganda and in North Carolina. Father, may you bless what we are doing to be your work and not our own, that we are operating out of your strength and your grace, that we have your holy spirit fire burning into our souls, that we will see the world through your eyes and be able to touch people's lives because of Jesus. May you bless the North Carolina delegation as they visit and let it be a true learning experience for us all. And Lord, we pray in your mercies, Lord Jesus, come quickly.

SPEAKER_02 33:12

Dear Lord, want to thank you for the partnership that you have created between Uganda, Global Methodist Church, and the North Carolina. Lord, we want to pray that you use this relationship not just for our will, but for your will. We pray that your will be done among us. The Lord, every knee will bow down, and every tongue will confess that you are the Lord. Lord, we want to pray for health, good health in between us all. Father, we want to pray for peace, unity, love, real love for one another. Lord, we want to pray that you heal us from our past, save us from our trauma, hearts and brokenness. King of God, may you give us new hearts, hearts that are going to yearn for your desire, hearts that are going to obey your word, hearts that are going to move out in obedience to reconcile this broken world to yourself. Lord, we want to pray that may you be the resource, may you be the source of every need that we have. Come down, Lord, and reign your Holy Spirit upon this relationship. Father, we desire to see what you are doing in between us. Father, Lord, we want to see what your name is. You are Jehovah Jre. You are the nine, you are the Olphan Omega. Great is your faithfulness. Father, heal us and give us the opportunity to be a blessing unto this world. In Jesus' name I pray. Amen.

Kerry Wood, host 35:19

Thank you, gentlemen, for giving such a gracious amount of your time to me today. I know it's your late evening, and uh, I'm sure you have family obligations to uh take care of before you go to bed tonight. So thank you for giving me some time today, and uh may God truly richly bless your ministry personally and the ministry of the Global Methodist Church.

SPEAKER_02 35:43

Amen. Blessings to you, greetings to everyone.

Kerry Wood, host 35:48

Very good. Anything else you want to add on Zulu?

SPEAKER_02 35:52

Bye. Bye-bye.

Kerry Wood, host 35:58

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