Kerry Wood, host 0:07

This is the Pursue Holiness Podcast, an official podcast of the North Carolina Conference of the Global Methodist Church. We are engaged in scriptural holiness, applying it to everyday life so that we can have the new life in Jesus springing forth so richly and powerfully within us that all we are and all that we do accurately reflects the true character of God. Thanks for being with us today. I'm your host, Kerry Wood, and today my guest is Steve Weldman. Steve is the pastor of the New Hope Church in Goldsboro, North Carolina. He's been there for quite some time. He is also the person in charge of the certified lay ministry program here in North Carolina. And today I had the opportunity to engage with him on what the CLM is all about. And I believe you will find this to be very informative, hopefully inspiring. And by the time we're done, you're going to be ready to say, hey, sign me up. I want to be there. So let's take a listen to what Steve has to share with us today. Steve, thanks so much for joining us today to be a part of the Pursue Holiness Podcast. I know you're a very busy guy, but why don't you tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do, and what the Certified Lay Ministry Program is all about in the North Carolina Conference of the Global Methodist Church.

SPEAKER_01 1:34

Gary, I appreciate you giving me the opportunity to do this. About a year ago, David Banks uh invited me to attend a meeting where I was uh approached to consider uh heading up the Certified Lay Ministry Program for the North Carolina Conference. And I had been praying prior to that meeting that my gifts and graces would be used in a way that could best be utilized to make an impact. And so when this invitation came along, uh I immediately took it as confirmation as uh for such a time as this. Uh, I had prior to coming to the North Carolina Conference in 2011, I had been hired at right out of my seminary uh degree in 2000 to teach at Asbury University. Uh one of their professors had been injured in a car wreck, and they needed someone that could step in to uh complete his classes, and uh I did that, and it turned into what would be an ongoing opportunity. Uh fortunately, he was able to return or recovered from his injuries, but uh things worked out so well that they ended up keeping me uh as a part-time faculty member in the philosophy department, and I continued in that role from 2000 to 2011. And then when I took a position here in this conference, they kept me as an online instructor, which I remained uh all the way until we become GMC, uh January the 1st, 2023. And then at that point, uh, when I was in the UMC, I really didn't have a whole lot of opportunities uh because people like you and I being staunchly orthodox, we tended to get sidelined. And so I wasn't utilized very much. But when we became GMC, the opportunities were were already available from day one. And so I stepped aside from uh teaching from Asbury so I could free up my time to do other things. But as the fates would have it, my uh former department chair at Asbury, uh her name is Melanie Collins. She had a sister who attended David Banks Church uh at Garbour in Newburn. So she knew David quite well and he knew her. And I and I don't know if they had a conversation. Uh I'm sure that connection helped and benefited me because uh he he called me and welcomed me into this meeting where I was approached to uh head up this new program for the conference. Uh I was honored and flattered to have been asked, and uh it was an intimidating invitation, even though at the same time it was an honoring one because this was an invitation to build the program essentially from the ground up.

Kerry Wood, host 4:33

I'm sure intimidating and exciting.

SPEAKER_01 4:37

Oh, it was. Uh, a provisional team had put together a small document, uh maybe 10, 15 pages, if I remember correctly, that just gave general parameters for how a certified lay ministry program could be initiated in a conference. We work in certified lay ministry in relationship with boards of ministry. And using that provisional document, we we essentially build a curriculum, and the board of ministry uh, in partnership with us, will confirm and endorse the curriculum that we create together uh to agree upon the standard that we will endorse certified lay minister. And that's where we are at the present. We are working from that provisional document, and that provisional document called for five core courses and then some elective courses. The five core courses would cover uh number one, something along the lines of exploring Wesley Spiritual Formation, fundamentals of scripture, global Methodist history, a course on congregational care, and then a course in missions and evangelism. And what the provisional document called for is courses 12 hours each. So it would be 60 total hours, eight hours of instructional time, and then four hours of outside preparation, reading, writing, um, coursework, whatever a professor would deem appropriate for a given course. When we initiated the program, we started last May, and you were a part of that, along with some others across the conference, where we offered what we called refresher courses that were a Saturday uh type event that began at 10 in the morning and went to four in the evening, and was an exposure as to to explore three things. Number one, what is a church like ours within the classical Orthodox tradition? And number two, what does it mean to be distinctly Wesleyan? And number three, what does it mean to be uniquely global Methodist Wesleyan? And that's the way we initiated the program to give people exposure as to who are we uh in this new movement? Uh, what is this new movement about? We found in our conversations, as I know you were part of some of those information sessions for disaffiliation, that there were more people who were aware of what they wanted to do to leave the UMC, and that they no longer felt like that was the right place for them to belong. But even when they became GMC, they didn't really have a grasp about what we were or who we were about, and uh what the unique things were that set us apart or distinguished us.

Kerry Wood, host 7:58

I think they're still working through helping people to understand what that is. So yeah, it's it's a it's probably gonna be something that takes our whole lifetime.

SPEAKER_01 8:09

You're exactly right. Yeah, uh, there were people that were urgent about what they thought was going wrong in the UMC and thought that they they wanted to disaffiliate. And when we did those information sessions, they were well attended. When with people wanted to know why we need to disaffiliate, people were coming to those meetings. But then when we became GMC and we started doing new meetings about, well, who are we now? I know you found and I found that those meetings didn't have near the same attendance of those that were interested in leaving. So it was almost like they thought that once they got out, it was just changed your sign and now you can move from there. But we wanted people to know who are we and what are we about and what is our new identity. And what Certified Lay Ministry uh really is a program that is designed to give people that kind of overview. Uh, we are in a denomination that that is recovering this, and as you're going to be teaching in March, uh when Wesley uh started his movement in the 18th century, it was predominantly a lay-driven movement. Correct. And we're we're recovering that in the GMC. We're we're going back to that with thinkers like Kevin Watson. You're using one of his books for your class, and he's been a tremendous advocate for uh reminding us of of the significant role that lay people had in that movement, and and how we have become what we had become in the umc is a professional movement where professionally credential pastors became the one on the stage, and the lay retreated into spectator positions. And what we're doing in the GMC is to recover the priesthood of all believers, to say we're all on the stage. Uh, we may have different roles on the stage, but but you're as much on this stage as the pastor, and you have a critical role to play. And the certified lay ministry program is built around that fundamental passionate commitment that we are an Ephesians 4 community. And really, the pastor's role is to disciple and train the laity uh to be the disciples we're all called to be, and to represent that calling uh in a way that is uh effective in ways that they they can accomplish that we can't. And uh the curriculum is built around giving people exposure to all the what is considered the foundational and fundamental uh sources that uh inform and educate and empower uh a lay mentality that is capable of entering into uh the the harvest and bringing forth an abundant return. Uh there is there is much work to do, and as Wesley saw in the 18th century, uh pastors themselves were not uh capable of handling it all. So what the genius of Wesley was to equip the lay and to mobilize what turned out to be uh an army for the kingdom, and uh now what we're trying to do in the 21st century in the GMC is to recover that, and the certified lay ministry program is an adventure where we're getting to be on the ground level of seeing that happen.

Kerry Wood, host 12:01

Yeah. So what are some of the the ways that you have changed what our approach is to certified lay ministry, and what are some of the uh key differences from what someone who maybe had experienced it in a previous denominational setting? What are they going to learn differently this time? I know you've kind of hit the big picture, but give me a couple of specifics.

SPEAKER_01 12:27

Well, that's an excellent question. And and one thing we have done is the certified lay ministry in the provisional document, it did uh attempt to provide a measure of grace for those that had already fulfilled requirements in the previous denomination. Most of those who are coming over are previously UMC, but we're getting uh some from other denominations as well. And if they have credentials comparable to what we uh or have organized, we're honoring that and we're allowing them to transfer in with uh comparable certification. The UMC did have a certified ministry program, and there were people that that I knew that was I was well acquainted with that were went through that program, but they said that it was a sharp departure from the things that we're doing in terms of uh showing people the roots of classical Christian Orthodoxy, uh showing people the roots of how Wesley himself was tied very tightly to that classical Orthodox tradition, and in the way that he brought in the articles and and made that a crucial part of what he did in America, as you'll be teaching in March. And and that we believe to return to that and to renew that and revive that they're hearing things that are going to be unique from what they inherited. Uh, so even though we are permitting people to transfer as a measure of grace, we are encouraging people to take as many of the courses that we offer because you will discover uh what our new identity is in ways that I think will be refreshing and and also uh igniting for for your own ministry and for your own personal spiritual growth. Uh the course we lead with is spiritual formation, because we're convinced that before you can really be effective in your ministry to others, you you have to have a a formed spirit yourself. Right. Uh, and so we we kind of start there, and we believe forming our outlook in a way that knows who we are, uh what links us and connects us to our origins and to our heritage uh is something we're feeling very uh intentional about as we build this program. Uh so those that have come over, we have extended grace. Uh, if they have comparable uh background, we will grant that and give them uh a renewal as they move forward. But at the same time, we're encouraging them to uh expose themselves to what we're doing because uh we think it's important for people to understand our identity. And and that is something I think that even in three years later, we're discovering that people, even though they've changed their sign, there's a lot of things that they bring with them that I think is just in need of rehabilitation. Okay. Uh we we we need rehabilitation. There's a lot of things we need to unlearn in order to learn. And in our conversations and in our interaction, we're we're discovering that there are people who feel like they are only certified or or only ministers called to their congregation. And so when we think about who this program is for, we're we're hoping that it is for any lay person that is involved or interested in ministry in any way, whether they want to pursue the credentials or not, because we think there's so much to gain from it.

Kerry Wood, host 16:37

Yeah, it was gonna be one of my questions is what is the kind of person that uh ought to consider doing certified lay ministry? So so keep going with that.

SPEAKER_01 16:45

Yes, uh people can be elected to uh a leadership role in their church. You know, this fall we had our uh initial charge conferences in the denomination, and we found in our conversations and leading those, and I'm sure you did as well, there are people who were elected to leadership roles, some of them even as lay leaders in their congregations, and they operate under the impression that that is as far as it goes. Well, you and I know that when Wesley thought of lay leadership, he believed that there is no holiness but social holiness, and it's not inclusive, it's not restrictive, and it is a it is to be a ministry without walls, where the world is your parish. And there's a misunderstanding, and I think that even though some have changed their sign, they have inherited a lot of uh teaching where they think that it's okay to just serve in a way that is benefiting your own congregation, uh your own community, you know, your own uh interest and preferences. And what we want to do is is open people's horizons to allow them to rediscover uh the largeness of where we've come from and the uh extravagance uh of the original vision that we that we are part of, that I just don't think a lot of people are aware of. Uh what we would hope that would come into our program, first of all, people who are exploring their call and whatever that may be, to see how God might clarify that. I don't know about you, but for me, when I was uh under my first UMC pastor, I became UMC when I met my wife in the early 90s. They had a flourishing college age group that uh was larger than the church that I was attending with my parents. And so I started going to church with her, and I got plugged in to what was her United Methodist Church, and her pastor took me under his wing, and he had me uh attend a Saturday session similar to what we did last May, that was uh for a person that might be interested in pursuing Lay Speaker. Well, that was life-changing for me. I I was not interested in pursuing the ministry, but it was that platform that launched me into a journey that look at where we are now.

Kerry Wood, host 19:36

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:36

And so I'm convinced that who knows what God can do when a person comes into this program and starts exploring. I I think that you know, anything can happen and the sky's the limit. And in my case, I entered into uh what what I thought was just a Saturday lay speaker event. And the next thing I know, I'm going to seminary, and 30 years later, I'm I'm in, you know, my approaching my fourth decade of ministry. So uh I think that we hope this program will be a platform, a launching pad for people that can come in and explore their call, whatever that may be. And of course, for those that know that they want to pursue certification, they've got the five core courses and and that that's available to them. But we hope it'll be a place where people can find clarity, they can find uh enlightenment, they can find uh upbuilding, they can find formation. And so all can benefit from it. And for the person that's serving in any form of leadership, whatever that might be, uh lay leader, SBRC, trustees, finance, all the various forms that we have, I think that all of the people who are in leadership would benefit from what we offer, because we're trying to get people acquainted with our classical Orthodox heritage. What does it mean to be distinctly Wesleyan? And what does it mean to be uniquely global Methodist? And any of us are going to be deepened by coming to a better realization of that. And in my own preparation and study, I find myself uh broadening my own horizons as I learn more and more uh about who we are and what we're about. Uh, it it really deepens your appreciation for the work we're doing. Yeah. And so I think that that's true for any of us. And uh I think for those of us who are going to be good at what we try to teach, uh, we're first exposing ourselves as learners ourselves, uh, because I think that uh understanding our identity will make us far more effective as we move forward.

Kerry Wood, host 21:59

Right. So someone who is teaching uh four second graders is just as valuable in this class as someone who is the lay leader of a 600-member church that everybody will benefit from being a part of all this. I think that's wonderful.

SPEAKER_01 22:17

Thank you, you're right. I mean, this is Ephesians 4, this is the priesthood of all believers, this is how we're equipping uh every person uh to know who they are first as uh a person that is defined uh by the authority of sacred scripture, and we want to align them with that, and we want to align them with the rich classical tradition that we have emerged from, and then we want to uh broaden their appreciation for our heritage of being uniquely uniquely Methodist and Wesleyan. And lastly, what does it mean now that we're three years uh encounting to be distinctly global Methodist in who we are? Uh because we we are a unique movement in our own right, and uh one that has uh uh I think some noble aspirations. Uh it was formed three years ago by people, a number of people that I had uh admiration for, that that had a hand in in the uh development of of this community. And so it was three years ago when we were looking at this from the outside, looking in, we were all eager to see what would what would happen. And now here we are on the ground floor of of having a place to build what it actually turns out to be. And and so that that is going to be uh at once an exciting thing and and a challenging thing, but at once uh it is it's a honorable thing to know that we can uh have a place in in leaving a mark in a movement in history. Uh we we're not overstating that, I don't think. When you see the wonderful things that are happening around the world, particularly in a place like Uganda that we're partners with, right? You know God is on the move in this in this new movement, and uh to have any role at all in it is is really uh a high distinction. So and and speaking of Uganda, we have found that people who are signing up for these courses, uh, because we're doing them on Zoom, that we're casting a much wider net than the North Carolina conference. Uh we have a number and a growing number of international participants in these classes uh for two reasons. Number one, Zoom makes it accessible. Yeah. Uh wherever a person has computer access, they can they can take part. And secondly, we have set a goal that we hope we can maintain to make these courses available for free. Uh, and and we think that that is uh uh an aspiration that we'd like to hold to because we think that it is it's so vital that people can get uh education and uh uh formation as to who we are and and what our identity is, that we we want to make this as widely available as we can. Right. So one thing that uh we were recently approached with in this program, Greg Jinks, who uh heads up our partner in ministry and international relations for the conference, he approached us uh about integrating uh the Ugandans into our program because their churches are multiplying at such a rapid rate that they need a some kind of avenue where they can equip their pastors. Right, and so our program was attractive because it was number one, accessible online, and so if they could get online access through Zoom, that gave them uh a point of access that would be much easier than traveling somewhere on site. And number two, we we are making it available for no cost, uh and so then whatever their materials might be. Yes, and we would assist them with that.

Kerry Wood, host 26:31

Yep, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 26:32

Uh so uh they were attracted to both of those things uh because uh they they they certainly had challenges in both areas, trying to find uh a way to uh make education available to reduce travel and other things that could be complicated, and number two, to make it cost effective for them. Right. So uh with preaching that just launched last Saturday, we had uh right out 100 participants, and probably 20 of them were were internationals. So we're looking at almost a fourth of uh of the students that we have are are not from North Carolina, they're from all around the world. That's a wonderful, exciting thing. We're enriched by that. We're we we're all the better for it, I think, to have that kind of uh uh enlargement to uh our learning. And uh we've even discussed the possibilities of having uh some of the Ugandan professors teach in our program. I mean, when you are multiplying churches at the rate that they're multiplying them, we could learn from them. Right. Uh and so uh we'd like to partner with them in in more ways than them learning from us, we'd like to learn from them too. Yeah.

Kerry Wood, host 27:53

I I would say, especially in the area of what does it mean to be an evangelist? What does it mean to share your faith in just everyday circumstances? You don't have to go through some highfalutin training and think that you can answer any objection, but that just simply telling your story of faith of what you have experienced from God in your life, that is a powerful tool. And the Ugandans know how to say that and do that better than we do in America much of the time.

SPEAKER_01 28:23

You're right. You're absolutely right. And they're clearly effective in doing that, or their churches wouldn't be multiplying the way that they are. Clearly, the context that we're dealing with, or there's going to be some differences in the context uh of what they have or what we have. But as what you're pointing out, just the relational aspects of faith sharing, that's what we can learn from because they are so effective uh at that. Yes, and that's where we're that's where we have a disconnect. And that's what Kevin Watson has tried to revive in in recent years, is that it's so deeply ingrained that I don't even realize that we were being seduced by it by what he refers to as the professionalism of the pulpit. Yeah, and while I am uh I think we've benefited by by being a part of a tradition that has high expectations for its pastors. Uh I have a cousin who was ordained uh in another denomination and uh in the same family. It was an inside joke that he was ordained uh right out of college in a mall parking lot by a bishop that that met him there and ordained him outside the food court. And I like you, I was years into this, going to seminary, having to do paperwork, appear before interview committees, and people couldn't understand, you know, why I was years into this and why my cousin had already had, he was practically a bishop by the time I got my ordination. But but I do look back on it and I'm thinking I am somewhat grateful that we did come from a tradition that put on us uh a distinction that expected something from us. I mean, we we had to demonstrate the integrity of what we were doing, we had to show that we were going to uh respect the treasure in the earthen vessel, and and and there was something I think we can look back on and say, well, despite the the longer road we took, we can we can say that we're grateful for it. Um but uh what I have tried to convey in this program is that uh simply because pastors have gone through that process and and and we've gone through that specialized uh expectation of call, that doesn't grant us uh any kind of superiority in terms of now everybody else stay silent. And and I think that's the downside of where we came from. While there was a lot of expectation and uh integrity building for the clergy in terms of what we represented and passing through several stages of cross-checking and examination and uh one committee to another to say, yeah, Steve's qualified, he won't be a threat to himself or others. That's a good thing. Yep. But on the downside, uh, I think that it gave the indirect impression that we're professionals, everybody now can rest, we're here to save the day, and and then and then they retreated into the spectator position. Uh so what Kevin Watson has tried to revive in recent years is that first off, that's a departure from scripture, and second off, that's a depart, that's a gross departure from Wesley's own uh way in which the Great Awakening took off. Uh, it didn't take off because of professional clergy, uh, it took off because Wesley was uh cognizant enough to see that the priesthood of all believers is far more effective than select professionals. And by equipping them and uh giving them the space uh to launch into the great wide open, history was never the same. And so if we can recover that, Kevin Watson believes that that is really the uh the the foundation of a new revival, right? And to be a part of a movement like that is an exciting thing, it is. Uh and so if we can maybe even reflect to a uh a degree of what Uganda is doing, special things can happen here. Right, very much so.

Kerry Wood, host 33:08

So, how does someone learn how to get involved in the certified lay ministry? What is where do they need to go? What what kind of information do they need to uh look for?

SPEAKER_01 33:21

Well, that's a good question. We've tried to in what we're doing right now, is another way that we can get the word out, but uh a few of the ways that we we inform people to what the NCGMC CLM is all about is on first off on our website. There is a CLM page on the uh conference website that outlines the uh information for the program. Right now we are following that transitional uh model that was put out, five core required courses, and then we'll have some electives that people can can choose from, but they need those five if they're going to be credentialed. Um, and then it will give brief descriptions as to uh what uh is required of a person that's going to be certified. Uh they need to be endorsed by their congregation, by their pastor. Uh, they would need to pass examination with the board of ministry. Uh, one of the things that uh this new community has endorsed is it has uh brought distinction to those in uh lay ministry to say that you're going to be brought before the same dignifying accountability that the pastor is brought before. And so they will uh come before the board of ministry just as prospective pastors are uh to examine together uh very careful uh ways in which we not only think about the call we're experiencing, but see how that call is getting confirmed and how God reinforces that call through the examination by others. Uh so that is a very significant part uh of pursuing the credentials.

Kerry Wood, host 35:19

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 35:20

Uh but laying out all of that is on the conference website. We also put information on the NCGMC Facebook page. Those are the two primary uh ways in which we can uh send information out.

Kerry Wood, host 35:35

Great. And I'll put uh links within our show's description of where a person can go and find that, but it's ncglobalmethodist.org. Um, if anybody is curious to be able to find that out, and I guess it's probably slash CLM or something like that, but we'll we'll put the exact link in there. So the preaching class is happening right now. Then the the next course that's going to be offered in March is one that I'm very intimately engaged with because I'll be leading that class uh on uh the the Global Methodist history. And so if somebody were wanting to get involved, could they jump in at that point, register for the March class?

SPEAKER_01 36:13

Absolutely. That's the beautiful thing about this program is you can get in at any point, and uh a person doesn't need to take the classes in any specific order. Uh, but uh the former department chair uh that I worked under, that I told you attended David Banks, her sister attended David Banks Church at Garber, uh, Melanie is now retired and she lives in Florida. And I recently reached out to her because I thought in her retirement she might be looking for some new adventure to keep herself occupied. And so I asked if she'd be interested to teach some upper Bible courses because the CLM program has the one fundamentals of scripture course. But we thought if we could bring her into the program, she could offer uh a treasure trove of biblical courses. Well, she was in more than enthused to be a part of what we were doing, and so she's going to be teaching some upper-level Bible courses for us beginning in the fall. That is the one area and probably the only one that I think I would recommend a person to first have the fundamentals of scripture first before they uh take uh upper level Bible courses. But I I wouldn't prevent a person from doing it. I I think that if they wanted to dive in, she's gonna teach in the fall, preaching from the gospels. And uh if they haven't had fundamentals of scripture, I wouldn't prevent them from signing up for it, but I think they would gain more if they would have fundamentals of scripture first, right? But as for the others, uh there's there's no prerequisites for them. They could take your uh history without having a prerequisite. I'll be teaching uh Wesley theology in April, doesn't really have a prerequisite. They can they can jump in wherever we are. Um but we have a what I think is is shaping up to be a very uh attractive curriculum. Uh what I started with really before uh anything else, when they approached me to consider this, is I immediately started networking. I'd never done anything like this before. So I found out which programs were already up and running, and South Carolina had one that was this was their third year, Trinity in Texas, this was their third year. And so I'm indebted particularly to those two because they were very generous to us in sharing with North Carolina their entire collection of what they've assembled to this point, right? So that made it easier in recruiting uh talented instructors like yourself that I could say we don't have to, you know, rebuild the wheel. Uh, we we have some materials we can look at, examine, uh, use to inspire our own thinking and then make or put our own imprint on it. Uh, but we we inherited the entire curriculum uh from both South Carolina and Trinity, which has helped in terms of how we recruited instructors. Right. Um I started last September teaching uh spiritual formation from the Wesleyan perspective. Cliff Wall in October then taught the fundamentals of scripture. Richard Booker uh taught in November missions and evangelism, and then I slipped in between October and November a leadership, the Wesleyan Way, which essentially was uh kind of what would be polity and administration. We talked about things like what is church council, what is SBRC finance, and we tried to tie it into the the charge conferences that we were doing this year. And incidentally, if anybody's interested in seeing those, all of those have been put on the conference YouTube channel. Uh, that's the one course we have that is now fully available on the conference YouTube channel. And we're as we move forward, we'd like to integrate more of those courses on the YouTube channel so that any church could watch them and benefit from them. That's just one other way we could get continuing education out there. They can't join us live. Maybe they could watch uh recordings of what we do uh on on the conference YouTube channel. But uh that was what we did in the fall, and then in the spring, we've got Earl Bradshaw teaching preaching now. You'll be teaching uh Methodist history in March. I'm doing Wesley Theology, and then Cliff Wall will uh teach in May Congregational Care. Uh so it's a it's a solid first year lineup, includes the five core courses, so that if a lay person joined us last fall, they will have completed the five core courses by the end of their first year, and uh all of what they needed to become certified in terms of the coursework will have already been presented to them.

Kerry Wood, host 41:26

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:27

Uh now we already have plans next year of rolling out some new courses. Um, Barry Drum is going to teach for us uh leading small groups, and he'll have a lot to say about uh uh the classes and bands and and how we can form similar things uh in our time and and and this new movement. Uh we're going to offer a course on preparing worship. Uh Tom Newman, uh, who heads up the conference Facebook page, will be teaching that for us. We're gonna be offering a course on service and outreach, and uh Paul Dunham, who is the conference missions uh specialist, he'll be teaching that. And then we're gonna be offering a lective on church revitalization, and Jeff Sievert, our conference church revitalization specialist, will be teaching that. So when I started networking with other conferences first, and then I set out uh to then explore who would be interested to teach, and names started coming to me, yours being one of them, people with teaching experience, people that had had uh kind of a reputation in the conference for being good teachers, and the Lord's just blessed us. Uh, I've I've had a number of highly gifted people volunteer their time to teach in the program. One way we've tried to make it attractive for people like you is to say uh if you're going to give us the time and you're a very busy schedule, you can teach the course when it meets your schedule. And so the the presentation, since they're on Zoom, they can really be anytime. Uh Earl's teaching his preaching class on Saturdays from 9 to 11. Cliff taught his uh fundamentals of scripture last fall on Sunday evenings from 5 to 7. I I did Thursday Tuesday evenings from 6:30 to 8:30. You're gonna do Thursday evenings. Uh so some people may think, wow, you're all over the place. Saturday mornings, uh, you know, week nights. But if you're gonna have people who are experienced teachers who are going to be capable of navigating the material, uh, you know, one of the ways in which we're going to have to ensure that that's possible is to give our instructors the flexibility to. To adapt that in their schedule. Yeah.

Kerry Wood, host 44:02

And hopefully that'll that'll work out for people that, you know, if it's not convenient for them at this point, there'll be another opportunity where maybe they can pick it up later. And especially if we reach the point where we're able to offer these things in an asynchronous mode, meaning that they can pick it up when they have that time, then that would be great for allowing people to do this on their own schedule. And then they work with you and being able to demonstrate that they have experienced it, they've mastered the material, the information that was presented to them, and they're ready to move forward. You know, I think there's a great future for helping people to experience the very best out of all of us. And I applaud you for having that kind of uh a forward-thinking approach to how we do certified lay ministry.

SPEAKER_01 44:55

Well, and I'm glad you brought that up. Uh these courses are transferable conference to conference, and that is a tremendous uh benefit that is now available. So that if a person has a scheduling conflict in our conference, most conferences are offering Zoom training. Uh not all. I know that Georgia only does theirs in person. Um but but but people like South Carolina and Trinity, they offer Zoom just like we do. And so if there is a conflict with your Methodist history in March, they can look at when Trinity's offering theirs on Zoom or when South Carolina might be offering theirs and and they can and get in on it. I know that we have uh a person that is pursuing credentials in our conference that is from Florida, because Florida doesn't have a CLM program yet. So uh they're wanting to become CLM and they're gonna be ahead of the game because they'll be able to get certified uh even before Florida has the certified lay ministry in Florida because they're they're going through our program and and we welcome that. And so it it it it deepens and uh enriches us because we can see that that we're we're including more in our uh reach than than just servicing uh North Carolina alone. We've got a worldwide reach, and that's the way it should be.

Kerry Wood, host 46:31

Yeah, that's great. So do you have any stories of where certified lay ministry is making a difference in our conference? Do you have any successes that might be able to uh inspire people to say, hey, I would love to be a part of that?

SPEAKER_01 46:46

Well, we we've had some very kind reinforcement and and reaffirmation ever since we started this. Uh it has been a journey of prayer when whenever you take on an undertaking like this, you you hope for the best, but you think this is something we're building as we're as we're traveling. And you know, I hope it goes well because you know it could very well have a lot of setbacks along the way. But we have uh one person in particular who was a former college dean, uh highly accomplished man, and he is a layperson, but he wanted to come into the certified lay ministry program and uh widen his exposure and his awareness of what it means to be classically orthodox, wesleyan, and global Methodist. Well, he said that he had had courses uh for many years in a previous denomination prior to coming over to what we're doing here in North Carolina in our program. And he said that last semester he learned more in a semester than he learned in the previous several years that he had been a part of a previous denomination. It it helped us to understand that what we're doing here uh is making a difference, and and we've had numerous uh thank you letters, and after every course that we have provided, spiritual formation back in September, Cliff's uh Fundamentals of Scripture, Richard's uh missions and evangelism, the uh course I offered on leadership, the Wesley and Way. Uh we we've had very good feedback so far, and uh it has been uh it has been uh reaffirming for us uh and encouraging for us to uh rejuvenate us and to uh quicken our steps as we move forward to know that uh we we can move forward with a renewed sense of energy uh because of uh of the feedback that we're getting that it is making a difference and that people appreciate it. Um we want to be we we want to stretch people and we want to uh uh enlarge uh people's horizons, but at the same time, we we don't want to be overly demanding. We we don't want to create a seminary type curriculum here. It is a specific program that really should be for the general lay seeker. And we want it to be informative and educational and edifying and inspirational, but we want to also be sure that we we're not uh being excessive and that we're not being overly uh expectant in in what we ask. Now, I will say that at the end of each of these courses, people do not receive a grade, there are no grades in the CLM program, but you do meet expectations. And the the primary one is attendance. Uh since it is a 12-hour program, eight hours of class time, a student is permitted an excused absence, but because the courses are so limited uh and and and the the hours are so fixed that though they would be permitted an excused session, it has to be uh viewed on Zoom and then a one-page summary of what you missed turned in as a way to to remain accountable. In our uh relationship with the Board of Ministry, we have both determined that that is more than fair uh to have that expectation of accountability. Because if a person is not going to be graded for the for the work, at the very least, there needs to be a measure, uh a standard that they still have to reach. And and the exposure to the activity, the exposure to the participation, the exposure to the contribution, all of those things go into uh the fulfillment of that accountability. That's biblical, uh, it's certainly Wesleyan, and I think it's uh true to what the GMC is attempting to stand for in creating accountability at every level, beginning with bishops all the way down.

Kerry Wood, host 51:42

Well, I appreciate so much all the uh the information that you shared with us, Steve. Is there any final word that you would like to make sure we uh include?

SPEAKER_01 51:52

We're making this accessible by Zoom and we're making it free. Uh I think we're trying to do all that we can to make this widely available. I I don't know if there would be anything standing in anybody's way uh to uh adopt continuing education as one of your spiritual disciplines.

Kerry Wood, host 52:15

Well, we'll continue to uh engage with you, and folks can continue to uh look for information on the website through the emails that uh are sent out through uh Shannon Medlin and for for all the different ways. And will you have something at annual conference to uh help people to see some things? I forgot to ask you that before.

SPEAKER_01 52:34

Yes, we sure will. We had a booth last year, and there will be a booth again this year where we will circulate materials uh with the schedule of uh all the courses that we'll have next year and um and all the opportunities that are coming up. There's some exciting things on the horizon, and uh conference will be a good opportunity for us to to showcase that in yet another way.

Kerry Wood, host 52:58

So perfect.

SPEAKER_01 52:59

Uh we're trying to think of all the different ways we can get the information out there and uh what you're doing here. We're very, very grateful for it. And uh again, I I'm so appreciative uh of this platform and uh hopefully we can connect with somebody who didn't know about this program that can uh uh maybe come in and explore what we're about and maybe start with your class in March. Who knows?

Kerry Wood, host 53:23

That's right. That sounds good. Well, Steve, let me uh offer a prayer for the Certified Lay Ministry, uh, the the overall program uh for you as well. And if the spirit leads you to want to uh add into that prayer, then uh feel free to do that. Thank you. Almighty God, we are so grateful that you continue to work in our world. God, we we're so grateful that you have continued to work your Holy Spirit into this new denomination called Global Methodism. And God, it has been such a long process. For for many of us, this has been a very, very painful struggle. Uh, for some of us, this has been um earth-shattering in standing up to say this is what we believe. And so, God, I just ask for some healing around that and that maybe the certified lay ministry can help to give us that sense of why we are what we are, why we believe what we believe, and and how important that is for us to be able to know it in ourselves and then be able to share it with others. So may you just bless the certified lay ministry processes. May you bless the curriculum that is being presented, the people who are doing the teaching, the people that are receiving that teaching. And God, may it be more than just a learning process, but this is part of growing our spiritual holiness, to making our characters so attuned to the character of Jesus that what people see when they look at us is they see Him. May you bless Steve as he uh oversees this entire program, as he continues to work with so many people, to guide it, to frame it, to help it continue to grow and to improve. Bless him and his family, bless him in his church ministry and all the ways, Lord, that he needs to be able to be uh in tune to you. May he receive that. And Lord, I ask that if there's someone who's listening to our podcast, that whatever time they're listening to it, whether it is in the next week or maybe even years from now, may your Holy Spirit inspire and encourage us to draw closer and nearer to you. I pray this, Lord, in your precious and holy name.

SPEAKER_01 55:51

Amen. Thank you, brother. That was beautiful.

Kerry Wood, host 55:54

Absolutely. All right, well, thank you much, Steve. I appreciate it. Blessings, brother. Absolutely. If you enjoyed this podcast, please take the time to share it with others. We are on Facebook. You can share it through that, or you can put anything out on X, Twitter, whatever you want to call that these days. We have pursuitholiness.org as our website. You can leave us an email at pursuitholiness at ncglobalmethodist.org. There are many ways to reach out and engage with me. If you have ideas about a future podcast, please share that so that we can keep going with the good news of what God is doing here in North Carolina. And I look forward to seeing you next time.