Kerry Wood, host 0:06

This is the Pursue Holiness Podcast, an official podcast of the North Carolina Conference of the Global Methodist Church. We are engaged in scriptural holiness, applying it to everyday life so that we can have the new life in Jesus springing forth so richly and powerfully within us that all we are and all that we do accurately reflect the true character of God. Thanks for being with us today. And with me today, I have a very special person. She's probably somebody that you've never heard of before, but maybe this will be a way for you to learn her name and to really be able to embrace a unique ministry that she is able to tell us about. And this is Kimberly Kiefer. Kiefer, did I get that right? Kimberly is Kiefer, not Kiefer.

SPEAKER_01 1:01

Yes, you did perfect. You did perfect. Thank you.

Kerry Wood, host 1:04

Excellent. Well, Kimberly, tell us a little bit about yourself. What is it something that we need to know? Where did you grow up? What's your family, etc.? Things like that.

SPEAKER_01 1:13

Oh gosh. First of all, Carrie, thank you so much for the invitation to be here. This is very exciting. And thank you for the opportunity to just talk and get to let more people know about the calling on my life and how God's been using me for quite a few years. Born and raised in Charlotte. I like to tell people that I am, yes, one of those unique people who was literally born in Charlotte, North Carolina. I know that I'm officially old now because I can say I remember when that, and I remember when that was there or not there. So, but that's fun. But like I said, from Charlotte and uh youngest of three uh with my family, I've uh older brother and older sister, and I'm married. And um, so that's just kind of that part about me. I've stayed North Carolina really my whole life. Well, went to um school and well, let me back up a little bit. In high school, I was a big thing into drums. So uh I played drums since fifth grade, got to high school, and then it came all about the drumline. So marching band, doing all that. So that was an absolute blast in my life getting to do that. So that then introduced me to some other people doing their teaching assistant jobs from Winthrop University in Rock Hill, South Carolina. And that's actually how I ended up going there.

Kerry Wood, host 2:33

So that's where I did an undergrad. I gotta tell you, I am a drummer as well. So uh we have a kindred spirit here. Yes. So what what particular instrument did you play in the uh drum line?

SPEAKER_01 2:46

So I did the snare drum.

Kerry Wood, host 2:47

All right. Did you get into the fanciness of uh making your sticks pop with your other uh players and doing the flips and tosses and all that?

SPEAKER_01 2:55

When when our band director allowed us to, yes, because we did the competitions and all of that. So yes, there were we were at huge drum lines. So uh we had five bass drum line, five bass drums, four snares, two quads, three triplets. I mean, we were, and then all on the sidelines, so there were a lot of us. Uh but yeah, we would we would do some of that kind of special stuff for school for me. High school started a month early because we're out there learning music, out there learning drills, as you know. Yeah.

Kerry Wood, host 3:27

So very fun. Yeah. Well, I I uh I was uh initially played uh snare and tom's, and then when my band director discovered that I could actually read music and not just rhythms, he put me on all of the uh the keyboard instruments. So um this was before the age of having the the pit so that you would have your keyboard percussionist down right there next to the uh the bleachers. I actually marched with a set of xylophones strapped over my shoulders and carrying probably 60 pounds of uh dead weight, playing it in the middle of marching with everybody else. So yeah, fun times, but I'm glad they're behind me.

SPEAKER_01 4:11

That's off to you. That's off to you. Oh my goodness. Uh I can feel the weight right now. I can feel the straps on me holding the snare. And then when they really wanted our sound to go out, so you kind of learn to figure that out, but then we would do certain moves. We have to squat and kind of do sidewalks, like walk sideways, all these fancy moves. Then they decided to add this plastic piece so their sound would amplify, like kind of go towards the audio so we're so that's fun. The drums already hanging, and then now we've added this piece, so we I was like, Oh, well, that just changed everything. Then I was like, Well, I'm kind of glad that I'm tall. Uh so that was interesting. Yeah, lots of good memories, right? Lots of great memories.

Kerry Wood, host 4:54

So anybody who doesn't know what she's talking about, just Google Marching Snare with Sound Shield, and you'll get all kinds of pictures to know what she's doing. That's awesome. So we we're as much fun as it would be to talk about high school band memories. We're we're actually here to talk about a few other things. So so tell me a little bit about your call story. You have a really interesting intertwining of call. So give us a little bit of a sense of what that is about.

SPEAKER_01 5:22

Let me take you back kind of way back, I'll say I was raised Presbyterian, so raised in the Presbyterian church. And in 2002, I walked into a uh United Methodist church and saw a female pastor. And I said, What is that? What oh my goodness, I have I've never seen that. And that really just opened up a whole new world to me of possibilities of being called and what does, you know, what does life and next step? So as I went to that church and became a member and just got very involved, just really started discerning that God had a call on my life. Uh so it was look for a seminary, and really thought I was going to women's ministry. Uh by that time, I had I had been a law enforcement officer, a police officer, cop, all different kinds of words that people like to use. And uh was still kind of involved in that world, but wasn't technically working full-time at that time. So found a seminary in the again, Charlotte area, which was Gordon Conwell Theological Seminary. We have a Charlotte campus and I also have a campus in Massachusetts, and started attending there. And as I was taking classes, as I was just going through everything, learning a lot, uh, some people that I know still connected to a police department had some really bad calls. And as I'm learning theology and I'm kind of learning counseling and you just all of this learning in this environment, and then these really horrible calls are happening. And then I'm reflecting on my time at that point that I've been an officer. I was like, God, what do we do? Like, how do we take care of them? Like, where do they put what they've just seen? Where do they store this in their brain, in their heart? How do they go home? Like, just my heart was just breaking. And again, reflecting on my own time.

Kerry Wood, host 7:24

Just get a glare, get some clarification for for our audience. So uh when we talk about call in a ministry setting, we're talking about something that God is doing um in us. But when you're talking about a call in a police enforcement setting, that's not the same thing. So when you talk about these horrible calls, tell us what you mean by that.

SPEAKER_01 7:46

Thank you. I appreciate that. Let me say calls for service. How about that? Let's delineate it that way. So they received these calls for service. Um, they were both uh deaths that involved children. I'll try to keep it um not too bad for the audience. Um, and and it was the response of this to these calls were the same, excuse me, response for these calls for service was the same team. So within about a month apart, the same officers, the same officers in that team are going to these, uh answering this this needs for help. And they both involved the death of children. And again, as I'm learning more details about the specific situations of these, I was like, it's they're very horrific. And I'm like, again, where do they how do they handle that? Where do they put that? Where where do you even? And then again, I started reflecting on my training and my time as an officer. Oh, wow, look at how you started changing. Let's think about this in a bigger perspective. And and then really I could say is is just prayer and conversations with my really with the Lord. I said, Lord, I need a I need a two by four. Like, I need you to hit me upside the other two by four. Like, what am I doing now going forward? And God made it very clear. And so that changed my degree that I was pursuing at Gordon Conwell. And that then changed my advisor. And so when I got switched to a new advisor and we started talking, I started sharing this. Like, the Lord's not calling me to women's ministry. The Lord is really calling me to be like a chaplain, to really be a pastor to these first responders, specifically at that time to law enforcement officers. And then he shared, my advisor shared, well, I've been a chaplain also, and different roles to some law enforcement in Colorado and some other ways. I'm like, well, there you go. That's what the Lord does. And so uh very blessed with that. And then I was able to do at a department to serve as a chaplain the way I first started was basically an internship because I I had some some time that I needed to do and some program stuff through my uh my degree. And that's how that chief brought me in. I was so thankful because I wasn't ordained. And he's like, Well, all my chaplains are ordained, and I'm not sure how to do this, and this is kind of new. And and then he asked, he's like, Well, just you know, do you need um class credit? Like, are you gonna do an internship? I said, Actually, I I am for my master's. He said, Well, just bring you in that way. So I loved how the Lord spoke to this Christian uh um chief and found a way to bring me in. And and that was in 2009. And then there was already at that time there were three chaplains and uh at serving, again, I volunteered at this department. So I technically came in, I was the fourth, the only female, uh, the only one that had been an officer. Uh everybody else were full-time pastors, and one of them just kind of took me under his wing as a mentor, and that's where that started.

Kerry Wood, host 10:43

Wow. So, what what police forces were you part of as an officer?

SPEAKER_01 10:49

So as an officer, uh again in North Carolina, so Gaston County Police Department and then Person County Sheriff Office, uh, those were some of my bigger, the ones that I spent some of the most time at.

Kerry Wood, host 11:01

So and and so you were you had you exited law enforcement when you started going into pursuing ministry, and you just found your way back to wanting to help those as first responders? Just trying to clarify in my mind how the how the timing worked.

SPEAKER_01 11:23

I'll be honest. I started long ago, started actually in 1995, was when I started my law enforcement career. Do not come from a law enforcement family. Uh so to me, I felt like I was not quite set up ready for all of all of that. So I kind of would leave law enforcement, I would go do something else. And then later, the Lord, I felt literally the Lord would pull me back in, and then I might do something, and the Lord would pull me back in. So it's just over all these years that the Lord just kept bringing me back. And so it's so interesting again as I look back on life and just start reflecting. God has used me to help people from as long back as I can remember. And then when I really said, oh, well, you know, a call on my life, this makes sense. This has really been where my heart has been this whole time is to truly help people. And so um my time at Person County, that was that was just a phenomenal time in that that that sheriff, when I approached him about being a chaplain, kind of like again, what I had already done. So by now, so let me give you perspectives. That would have been like around 2012 that I was at Person County. Kind of told him what I had done as a chaplain. So this time now I'm a full deputy, uniform, all of that, backhandling calls, working court, that sort of thing, which I was another great passion. I love working court also. And he he truly just gave me free reign. So the crosses on my collar. So a lot of people, I didn't have to say a word, knew what that meant as a chaplain. Uh anytime there are calls, uh, my officers and stuff, they would go deal with the calls. I could come out and help victims or families. I went and saw my officers prior to surgeries, uh, gave them birthday cards. I mean, just all of that. Just really was a pastor to of them. And then because that person county is so small, it really blessed me that I was now able to minister to our EMS, our medics, and firefighters. So then that's when the Lord expanded it to really me to be a chaplain to first responders. And that's what I call that kind of first responder world, please fire and medics. And then that was that was truly a gift. And and I can keep talking, so I'm gonna pause because you've got to be on a roll now.

Kerry Wood, host 13:39

Yeah, well, that that's awesome. I I'm glad to have you on the roll. The the enthusiasm that you uh exhibit to this is uh is great and wonderful. So when we often for people like me who do not have any kind of a law enforcement background, the the only way that we even get a glimpse into that life is through the various shows on on television, you know, so NCIS and CSI and you know the thin blue line and uh blue bloods and all those different things. So that I I didn't give you this question ahead of time, but it just kind of occurred to me. How realistic is TV cop show versus actual cop work?

SPEAKER_01 14:21

Goodness. So don't believe everything you see. That's for entertainment. I just crack up on some of those where I think it's uh I forget what law and order, one of those where the crime happens, it's solved, and they're already in court. I'm like, yeah, in reality, that's a five-year process. Like, literally, that's that's a three to five year, and that's if all goes smooth. So I'll just tell you that right there, it does not happen. Even if they make it seem like it's a couple weeks later, I'm like, no, no, no, that that's that's a good couple years later. Yep. Some of them have gotten better, I will, I will say. But again, remember that that is entertainment and stuff, and and they don't just have all that happen and then go home and have just you know a cupcake and it's it's all fine. That's that's not the case either.

Kerry Wood, host 15:04

So interesting. So as you moved into this role of understanding chaplaincy and the need for pastoral care with our first responders, what are the three things that you think churches ought to better understand, better be able to apply in order to support and engage with our first responders? How can churches do a better job helping first responders?

SPEAKER_01 15:33

I I appreciate that question. And I want to uh kind of pick up a story to keep going forward a little bit. Um so I I ended up graduating, like I said, with my master's from Gordon Conwell Seminary. And then so that would have been like in 2010, again, getting to be a chaplain on the deputy. And as time progressed, I was like, oh, I think the Lord's really calling me to go deeper, you know, to really um take what I'm doing to another level by getting another degree, which did not expect. I did not expect a master's. So when I started looking and even considering a doctor of ministry, I was like, really? Lord, you sure? Like, okay. Uh so uh anyway, it's it's amazing what God can equip us and get us through. So I looked around at a variety of schools and God just really brought me back home, as I say, to Gordon Conwell. So in 2021, I started my pursuit of my doctor of ministry degree. And I promise I'm answering your question. So as I'm sitting in my cohorts, they keep it kind of small, about 12 to 16 or so. So it's you know, uh in very intimate conversation, really getting to know each other, really uh learning and stuff. And so what we do is we meet for two weeks once a year for three years. So we're all together in person for two weeks, and and my brothers are like from all over the world. And so we're in these cohorts and we're talking and all over the country in the world. And as I bring up the issues that I've dealt with as a chaplain, um, you know, death of children or just the horror that they see, the things they've had to deal with. Um, I'm also trained in critical incident stress management. So it is a way to to come and well, actually to bring uh first responders back together after a critical incident call, like a really horrible call, and kind of help them walk through that and deal with that. So I was just kind of sharing uh some of the things that we had I'd worked on and I debriefed on and things to my to my cohort again, those that were my cohort, and again, they're all pastors, and I was like, Well, what would you say to them? Like, do you have any idea? Well, how would you respond or what would you say? And majority of them was like, I have no idea. Like, I don't know how how do you respond? I'll give you an example, and again, I try to be G-rated, but it is what it is. So when I, you know, you have an officer or a firefighter comes up and says, you know, I answered a call this week, it was a car fire, and we ended up seeing there are kids in the back. Like, how do I get the dead burn kids like out of my head? Like, I can't stop seeing that, Pastor. What do I do? What do I do? You know, these kinds of things are I saw that, you know, how do I, and and that's kind of stuff I was sharing. Like, these are real calls we've gone on. And they were like, I don't know. And so then, as the three years, it's a three-year program with the doctor minister, I was like, Lord, I think this is what we're gonna write about. I think this is what you're gonna have me really kind of do that. So I feel like almost I transferred from a chaplain to an advocate uh to for first responders to kind of help understand that world. So all that to say to answer your your question specifically, is that's really put me on the path of what do I really want churches to know? What had I already experienced uh with Concord Church that I was with up in in Person County and things that we had done I felt had done well to build relationships with our first responders. And now let's just take that a little wider. So the biggest thing I would say is is a relationship. First of all, is just build a relationship, Carrie. It it takes time. Um that you know, it's a group, especially law enforcement, that generally people are either always after them, they never do anything right, you know, they everything's questioned. Um, but it's such a specific training, yet everybody else is an expert, but yet they have no training in it. Um and so so that's that's really kind of the biggest thing is just know that it'll take time. So for for what I did at our church is we just started small, right? We just started feeding them. And so we would have a couple a couple of meals we would host a year, and we would cook for them, and then sometimes we would have a little word, sometimes we wouldn't. We just were thanking them, you know, thank you for your service, thank you for being here. I had the youth wrote cards. They wrote thank you cards, you know, thank you for your service. So we got the youth involved, and and then every first responder that came to that meal, they had a card that we could hand them. Just let them know they're being loved, they're being cared about. Another idea is again, just starting off so simple, snacks every holiday, right? We're getting ready to have a holiday on Monday with uh observing of Memorial Day, and you're gonna have first responders working when most people are enjoying time off and dropping off snacks on that actual holiday, you know, recognizing we see you and we know you're here and we thank you. And and I also really like to encourage, if you're gonna do that, to find out when those shifts change, like if it's 7 a.m. or 7 p.m., take snacks both times. So both of those shifts have those fresh snacks, you know, have that little thank you card in there. Again, just letting them know that they're loved on. So just that's kind of where stuff started to begin with. And then it's turning as you're getting to know them, there's uh adopt a cop prayer protection program. So officers, I would send it out. Again, now I was a chaplain there. If they wanted to sign up for it, I would just make a note of their name. And then I had people within the church who were willing to pray. So I would just connect them, and all I would do is say, officer, like this person's praying for you. And then I would tell the person this is your officer. And it was that was it. They were just being prayed for. Someone would actually kind of do like a birthday card or a Christmas card, but again, it was that officer knew specifically they are being carried in prayer. So, and again, I will pause because I can go home for a while. So, fully answering your question. Those are those are just a couple things right there. We could talk more, but there's just a few right there.

Kerry Wood, host 21:38

Okay, well, good. Well, you your book that's come out of your uh doctoral dissertation work is called Walking Life with First Responders. And and I really like that title. And I'm I'm curious where did you come up with the the verb walking?

SPEAKER_01 21:56

So, and I'll finish the title because the thesis title. Is the church's vital role in ministering to the law enforcement community? So that's that long title for the thesis part. So uh, but I appreciate the question. And and again, here's go back to where that came from because that's what I was like, Lord, what are we supposed to call this? What does this look like? So anytime I'm serving as a chaplain, again, this is about relationships. I want to get to know the person. I want them to invite me into their life, into their space. I do not go in blazing, I'm the chaplain. I'm gonna just come into your world. No, you you you're gonna invite me in. And so when I would serve at a department, I would just do very simple things. I would go spend time with them on shift change. I would just kind of hang out. I would, again, I was bringing the snacks, I would just come spend time. At one department, I had an actual chaplain room. I would come in, turn the light on like they knew I was in the building. And when the officers um built enough relationship or felt comfortable for me to ride with them, a lot of them already knew they'd been a former cop and everything. And they would say, Hey, will you come ride with me tonight or something? Well, that meant the world to me, right? Because now I am being invited into what I call their sacred space, right? Their patrol car. Right. Sacred space now. But I'm being invited in. So once I would get in there and start our ride along and everything, because you know, every kind of car is different, just kind of learning. And I would just say to them, hey, look, I'm not here for internal affairs. I am not here for the chief. I am not here to take notes or anything. Um, I am just here to walk life with you. I am my faith is and foundation is in Christ, right? Jesus Christ. I'm very blunt. I'm not here to shove Jesus down your throat, but I'm just here to walk life with you. But that's where I come from. I'm a former cop, so I can I can understand and know a lot of things. And then I would say, now, if things get really bad, you have instant backup. I'm already here, I got your back. I'm just here to walk life with you. And that's really where that came from. And as I was starting to think about a book title or just all these kinds of things, I was like, Well, it's like I say that all the time. Like that, that is what I do. And I'm just here to walk life with you. And so, on a side note, I cannot remember what I was reading. I hate that because I really try to give authors the credit. But they were talking about that was Jesus' ministry, right? It was at like three miles an hour. Like he walked with people. And I was like, oh man, that's really oh, thank you. Yeah, so that's where that came from. Now once I got in the car with my officers, I'm like, I'm just here to walk life with you. That's what I'm here for.

Kerry Wood, host 24:45

Yeah, I like that because it it does cause us to want to slow down because walking is very different than than driving. It's different from even running, you know, to to walk with someone is to have that side-by-side engagement where each of you feel the comfort of the other's presence, but you're looking towards the same direction and able to see, you know, together. Uh, and and I think that's just a beautiful analogy for for what you're asking churches to be much more aware of because so many times we tend to think of cops, and that that very name cop is a very impersonalizing term. You know, cops, pigs, we we have so many, you know, very negative nicknames for for police officers. And so what you're helping us to do is to set aside all of those kinds of, quite frankly, prejudicial terms and see the real person behind the badge.

SPEAKER_01 25:48

I appreciate you saying that because a goal of mine as a chaplain was I wanted to learn their first name. So when I would go to a department, you know, when you see an officer, their last name is on their on their nameplate. Like you can see, everybody can see their name, they can see their rank. So everybody can tell, even though they might not know they their the rank is there. It's either sergeant, chief, like there are different symbols to say that. So everybody can say that. Not everybody can say their first name. So that was such a goal of mine to to do exactly what you were saying. Connect and learn about them as a person. You know, that is a person who happens to be wearing a badge that is a police officer. Um, and so again, I would respect the groups we were in or that sort of thing. Yes, you were chief so-and-so or sergeant or officer, but if it was just us, then you know, and it and again, their approval, I would use their first name. Because again, I I think that's that's very important for them to be reminded of that, that they are still a person created in the image of God. Um, they are not the job.

Kerry Wood, host 26:55

Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. And I think that's good. And in some ways, you have a very unique perspective because as a chaplain, you know, especially like you'll you'll see hospital chaplains, and if they come out of a strong liturgical connection like uh Roman Catholic or or uh Lutheran, many times the the chaplains will wear the the clergy collars and that kind of sets them apart, and people kind of see them in a certain way based on what they visually see on a person. The badge does the same thing. You've been able to bridge both of those identification labels and help to reinforce that when God calls us by name, it's not by job or duty, it's by name. And Jesus gives us that true sense of relationship. So that's wonderful. So go ahead.

SPEAKER_01 27:58

I I say, well, I just want to say that uh I'm sorry, it means interrupt. Is it just takes me back to seminary when I started my master's? So again, had been an officer. I'm now in this class. I think it's like my first class or second class at Gordon Conwell, and I'm just like looking around. I'm just like, oh my gosh, all these pastors and they already have churches, and what am I doing here? I feel so out of place. I don't fit in. I'm like this cop, right? I've fought people, I've sprayed pepper spray, like I've had the authority to rest. Like this is just, what am I doing? You know, and then as time went on, it's just like really, because that was a cry of my heart. I'm like, Lord, I really feel out of place. And and God is so gracious, right? Because as time went on, I was it's like God revealed, and this is the best way I can try to say this is there are so many parallels between a pastor and an officer. And this is the way I kind of describe it to people. Like if you, if you have at your house, you're generally speaking going to open your door to two types of people, which is likely what you described. One is somebody in uniform that's like a police officer, a medic, or a firefighter, like you're gonna open the door. Or if they if they're in some kind of, like you said, liturgical collar, priestly, just something, you're like, oh, that's generally the two people you're going to right open that door and talk to them versus just through the ring camera or something. And so then I started realizing, oh goodness, when when I go on calls, when I respond to uh a car wreck or I respond to somebody who's dial 911, I literally am entering this very crisis-filled, again, sacred space of their life. I mean, I'm being invited into the worst time of their life just because of my position as an officer. So I can either really lift them up and help them. And for example, as a as a car wreck, that's a quick one. I can say, you know, here's the next steps. Generally, the insurance, you're probably going to feel sore than the next 24, 48 hours. You know, you can go here to get this information. Give them that very instead of here you go, here's your paperwork, you can go, right? So one of their worst times of their life, possibly with the wreck, I can really minister to them kind of soul care, so to speak, as an officer. Then as a pastor, that's really what we're doing, also. We we are caring for that, that right, that full person. And so soul care of them and their life and again, what they're walking through. And as I just started realizing that, I was like, oh my gosh, thank you, Lord, for really making that clear to me. And and so then as I was researching again just for this doctorate, um uh another chaplain who has a book called Spiritual Survival for Law Enforcement Officers, uh, Friedman wrote it. He he gave very a little more eloquent than I did. And so he says, he says it this way the parallels between the ministry of clergy and law enforcement are uncanny. They include ministering, protecting, serving, setting examples, enforcing laws, answering to a higher authority. And when I read that, I said, okay, that's what I've been saying for years, but he says it a lot more concise than I do.

Kerry Wood, host 31:28

So what scriptures have given you hope or comfort or inspiration and encouragement in these difficulties?

SPEAKER_01 31:38

And I'm so glad you gave me that a little bit ahead of time because some of them don't always just pop off the top of my head. So uh I was I I've pulled a few aside that I I see I cling to quite often. And that is one is Isaiah 41, 10. So do not fear, for I am with you. Do not be dismayed, for I am your God. I will strengthen you and help you. I will uphold you with my righteous right hand. And probably my other big one that has really again been a way to help me and a lot of uh of my officers is the Lord Himself goes before you and will be with you. He will never leave you nor forsake you. Do not be afraid, do not be discouraged. And sorry, that was Deuteronomy 31, 8. If you didn't. And this other one uh was actually shared in one of my doctor ministry classes. And as he's reading it, I literally said to myself, Oh, that is so perfect for first responders. So I'm gonna say it first. Second Corinthians uh chapter one, verses three through four. And so praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of compassion and the God of all comfort, who comforts us in all our troubles, so that we can comfort those in any trouble with the comfort we ourselves receive from God. Amen. That's good. So, and that's kind of where I feel like again, like my officers and my life and things of what we have gone through allows us to speak in people's lives in ways that we we couldn't have imagined. And I and that's where I see the beauty of the Lord kind of bringing my two worlds of seminary and church and and law enforcement together is is yes, being able to speak into their to their world that because of my experience, um because of things that I had gone through in training and and different things.

Kerry Wood, host 33:32

Absolutely. I find it fascinating that you you gave me three different scriptures that that have done this for you. Two of them are out of the old testament, one out of the new. And so many times we will hear people talk about well, the the God of the Old Testament was just full of wrath and and not of comfort. It's like, well, have you really paid attention to the picture of God? It is consistent, Old Testament to new. Yes, God has has wrath, but but God's wrath is only in response to our failure to receive God's comfort and encouragement and love. So thank you for for bringing those to our attention as well. That's good. Thanks, Kimberly.

SPEAKER_01 34:20

You're welcome, you're welcome. You know, and that as you're saying that I'm just even picturing, right, an officer. So even an officer expresses love and support, but it might look very different. And one response, it might be that they're having to literally subdue somebody. So force is being used to protect them from somebody or to protect them from hurting somebody. And then the very next, that same officer, same uniform, might be you know gently helping to lift a child up or something, or maybe somebody has fallen, helping to gently lift them up. Same person, same, but again, this person over here is gonna view them very differently. They were mean and they were fighting them and they were so rude. Oh, they were so sweet and gentle over here. But no, they really weren't. They it was love and help through both of them.

Kerry Wood, host 35:07

Yes.

SPEAKER_01 35:07

So yeah, Old Testament, New Testament, too. Kind of the yeah.

Kerry Wood, host 35:11

I I think that's that's really, really important for us to to just pause and absorb is that how much a a police officer actually can be a reflection of of Christ in all of those circumstances. And as as global Methodists, that's one of the things that that we have said we want to do is that we want to pursue scriptural holiness. We want to have that that character of God so richly formed inside of us that when we do, it's because God does. And I I've not really put it together this way before. How much a police officer, a firefighter, a medical practitioner, emergency response medical team, they are able to be the embodiment of Jesus in very unique ways. And so we as church who are only tangential to their roles, that's all the more reason why we need to support them in their roles. So so thank you for for bringing all of this up to our attention. That that is amazing.

SPEAKER_01 36:21

Well, you're welcome. And I again I just I give God all the glory. I I really do because how all of this is come together, all of this timing, the global Methodist Church movement being birthed at this time. Uh the Lord never removing that call on my life because the door shut for me on ordination in 2016 as I was pursuing that, and I didn't know where all this was going, but just continue to just live life, right? Continue, do the next thing, as Elizabeth Elliott would say, do the next thing. And then I'm watching the Global Methodist chart, and then here I am. And and also I'm part of you all, right? So I am in the North Carolina conference. Uh, this is my home. God's brought me back to uh to North Carolina in that way. I will I will be ordained at the annual conference, June 20th. Um, so it's just it's just so beautiful how God's given me this opportunity to take so many things that I've gone through, put it into a a degree that again, okay, I did it, I fulfilled it, and then that was kind of it. Like I that was it. Like, okay, I I've I finished. And it's like God said, no, you're not. And and turn it into a book. But I I do I want to say this, I feel like the Lord has really pressed this on me a lot to share uh this lately. So when June 12th of 2024, my thesis was finished. So I hit print, and it was now time to submit it to the the doctor ministry committee for them to do their thing and check it. It was a Wednesday night, and I went to the church and I went to the altar to the side, did not want anybody to know. And I had that printed thesis in my hands, and I took it and I laid it back on the altar. Laid it on there. I said, God, this is yours. This is yours. This was yours to write. Um, your humble servant who can't write had to have a team help me get this done, help me work through the the process of the proper grammars and all the documentation for a doctorate, all of that. And I give it back to you. Since then, as one or two people read read through it, the thesis itself, right? That that educational piece that I had to write in comment that this really needs to be a book. And I was like, Yeah, that's not on my radar. Like, I'm glad you sang that. Maybe I'll send a chapter or two, but nah, no, uh-uh. And obviously, God had other plans. And so I I a couple people spoke that, and I really know when the Lord is speaking through people and to honor the Lord with that. And so I followed through, talked to a couple people. It never really was happening about what to do. And I literally went to a women's retreat October of last year, October 2025, put it in perspective, and just started talking to one of my group leaders at the end. I have this thesis, I kind of like to make it a book. And she says, Uh, I'm a publisher, I'm an editor. And I said, That's why I'm at this retreat is to meet you.

Kerry Wood, host 39:36

That's right. That's right.

SPEAKER_01 39:37

And now here we are.

Kerry Wood, host 39:38

That's great. And your book is about to be released. So, what is the official release date?

SPEAKER_01 39:43

So it's pre-order now, so it can actually be pre-ordered. And the official launch date, are you ready? June 20th. Hmm, I wonder why June 20th was chosen. Well, let me tell you, thank you for asking, Carrie, why that date was chosen. I appreciate that. So June 20th, right? Very pivotal day in my life. After starting the ordination journey 22 years ago, I will be ordained in the Global Methodist Church on June 20th. That is why we chose that date.

Kerry Wood, host 40:12

Yeah, that's great. And so the book will be available, but people can pre-order now. Where do they go to do that?

SPEAKER_01 40:19

Anywhere books are sold. The usual places that anybody thinks of, they it is available online. It will be also available as an ebook. We're we're getting there. I'm learning there's stages to all this. So but right now it will be pre-order for print. And then, like I said, very soon we'll have it for an option to do the ebook. I think that's the right word.

Kerry Wood, host 40:40

Very good.

SPEAKER_01 40:41

I've been learning so much. I have been learning so much.

Kerry Wood, host 40:46

So now who's gonna do the uh the audible recording for you? Are you gonna do that yourself or are you gonna hire out an actress?

SPEAKER_01 40:51

Oh my goodness. Don't you're getting too far down the road. Hold on. I don't know. Maybe you're getting me prepared. There you go.

Kerry Wood, host 40:58

There you go. That'll be great. Wonderful. Well, how can people connect with you, Kimberly? If they were interested in learning more, they would like to have you maybe come and speak to either their whole church or to their leadership team, to a women's group, a men's group. How would they want to do that?

SPEAKER_01 41:16

That would be great. So the first step, just easy as the email address. Um, let me tell you, guess what it is? Walking life with first responders at gmail.com.

Kerry Wood, host 41:28

So that's a long email address, but it's just the title of the book walking life with first responders at gmail.com.

SPEAKER_01 41:36

Correct.

Kerry Wood, host 41:36

Awesome. Correct. We can get that there for you. Will there be a website uh added at some point? Do you have a website?

SPEAKER_01 41:43

Eventually, yes, sir. Eventually, again, things take time. As all of this is now starting to happen, and the Lord is opening a lot more doors and conversations. Uh, uh we'll start to build another team. Yeah, I have one team to help me get through that. And now obviously we have a team for this going forward because you're right. I would love for this to be conversations even at uh the um annual conference level, right? Within within North Carolina and Georgia, Florida, like anywhere within the Global Methodist Church. I would love for, and again, we'll see what the Lord has uh for this to be conversations and seminaries, right? For it to either be a class or just again coming in and speaking about it some so that so that pastors again can just kind of be aware a little bit, because this is how I like to describe it to when I specifically talk into my pastors or really any church leaders, I say when you're preaching about sin and the fall, right? You're you're preaching and you're talking about it. But the difference with my first responders is they are smelling it, touching it, and tasting it over a 20, 25 or 30 year career. Right. That's kind of that difference. And so then how can we support them? So, like I said, that's and again, just even having uh pastors and churches, leaders, or even the community, just think about it. Like our conversation here, just what can we do to support them? How do I need to understand their world a little bit? Yes, and and so this book is kind of part one, and we'll see what the Lord has for part two or continuing, I guess.

Kerry Wood, host 43:18

So that's right. That's it, that is great. And that's why I'm glad to have you on uh with uh Pursue Holiness, is because I want to be able to help support the kind of ministries that kind of bubble up in all the surprising ways and places that you know God is so good and so active in bringing the right people together at the right time and just beautiful things happen. I get the joy of being able to help tell people about it. So praise the Lord for that.

SPEAKER_01 43:49

Amen. And I thank you. I thank you for all you do with this podcast. And like I said, very excited. I feel very honored that I'm getting to follow some of those that have previously spoken and. been a part of this podcast and and so I thank you like I said for the opportunity to talk about this on a much wider scale.

Kerry Wood, host 44:06

Absolutely. Well Kimberly let me pray for you and uh the ministry that God has opened up for you for the celebration of uh did you say a 22 year journey for ordination?

SPEAKER_01 44:19

Yeah it started in 2002.

Kerry Wood, host 44:21

All right that that that's worth uh praying and praising God for so let's go oh gracious almighty God thank you for the ways in which you have done amazing things in Kimberly Kiefer and through her and Father as she has traversed such a a wild and wacky journey you've been with her in every step of that process. You've you've been with her in her calls of service to be a first responder in some as as she so rightly described the the evidences of sin and the fall that exist in this world. And yet she's also been able to provide the the grace and the beauty of of your love and the relationship that is offered through your son Jesus. And so God thank you for the ways in which all of this has now come together into a ministry of walking life with first responders. May you bless the publication of this book and for the message that she has to share with the church to help us as the body of Christ be able to better understand to be able to respond to our first responders with the love and grace that you give to all people. Lord help us to not be blind to their unique and specific needs and the ways that you can use us to meet those needs. Thank you for an ordination journey and the excitement of being able to have hands laid upon her as she gives herself over into this life of ministry. As someone whose journey started at the same time hers did but I've been able to be a pastor for the last two decades all I can say is thank you Jesus for both the fast and the slow walks but most of all we thank you for the eternal life that we have in you. And so all of this we place into your hands trusting in your grace may we be the blessing you intend us and equip us to be in Jesus we pray amen thanks so much Kimberly it was a joy to have you on today again I appreciate it.

SPEAKER_01 46:39

Thank you so much.

Kerry Wood, host 46:40

Yep and we will see you in Winston Salem in uh June and everybody is invited to come to that ordination service you don't have to be a a lay member of your uh delegation from your church just show up at the Benton Convention Center and be part of celebrating Kimberly and all the others who are going to be ordained on that day. So blessings to you. Blessings to you too Carrie thank you thank you friends I'm excited that we have Bishop Carolyn Moore coming to the North Carolina annual conference session at the Benton Convention Center in Winston Salem and on June 18th from 1230 to 130 p.m she's gonna sit down with me and we're gonna talk about all things global Methodist both locally and around the world we're gonna be meeting in Salem 1A and 1B so if you're coming to Winston Salem for annual conference please join us for this special live recording there will be audience participation and who knows you might end up on the air. We'll see you at the Benton Convention Center June 18th with Bishop Carolyn Moore, Salem 1A 1B, 1230 to 130 p.m